Scientific American writer Anil Ananthaswamy analyzes current thinking on the odds you’re living in a vast computer simulation. (If so, should ‘base reality’ give you a 2020 do-over?)
The classic trilemma proposed by Nick Bostrom isn’t the only way of looking at it — it might come down to a 50-50 chance. But like your personal computer, the challenge to the theory is grounded in computational power. Bill Whittle and Scott Ott seem to discuss the question…but their conversation doesn’t exist until you observe it.
Background Resource:
Do We Live in a Simulation? Chances Are About 50-50
[Anil Ananthaswamy, Scientific American, October 13, 2020]
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Bill Whittle Network · 50-50 Chance You’re Living in a Simulation: Should ‘Base Reality’ Give You a 2020 Do Over?
41 replies on “50-50 Chance You’re Living in a Simulation: Should ‘Base Reality’ Give You a 2020 Do Over?”
Before the big bang is the turtle. Or maybe the elephants, one has to observe them to make them real I guess?
The Elder Scrolls video game series has an interesting “theory” that everyone in the game are just actors in a person’s dream. The theory also says that if someone were able to realize they were in a dream, either they couldn’t handle the realization and would zero sum, or cease to exist, or have such an ego that they would remain in the dream but be able to control their own actions, essentially becoming a lucid dreamer.. in someone else’s dream. This would make them pretty much a god. That was one thing that always bothered me about the Matrix movies. Did none of the characters play computer games with cheat codes? Why couldn’t Neo just realize his assistance IS a cheat and thus he becomes immortal?
We all live in a simulation psychologically because each of us creates our own reality which exists only in our individual minds. Seven plus billion people, seven plus billion different realities and not one of these realities exists in actuality.
Obviously immediately after the Big Bang came the Big Cigarette.
Smack! Is that all you ever think about ?
Pretty much, yes.
After the Big Cigarette came the Big Relationship Discussion. Thus was divorce brought into the universe.
…followed by the Big Rimshot.
So, they believe in a creator of all that is “real” and a designer of “consciousness”?
Well, now, seems like science is looking for The Programmer. I believe in HIM. I just happen to call HIM The Lord Jesus Christ.
That said, a simulation for the purpose of itself is no longer a simulation. It is just existence…Right? I mean, if something is designed for the purpose of being…It is, whatever other purpose it was designed for. So, why does the human word “simulation” matter?
In other words, if they are right in their train of thought, the simulated are developing (from what they believe to be a simulated reality) an answer based on what simulated inputs seem to suggest…about The Programmer?
Maybe I need to try LSD to be as hyper-intellectual as scientists.
If you are going to try LSD, please please vote first. Today every vote counts.
Haha! Yes! I’m going to follow those pink and green bunnies all the way to the ballot box.
“Nothing exists outside this room..”
Congratuations, Scott. You’ve just invented pantheistic multi-person solipsism.
Lazarus Long wants a word with you…
Heinlein always rates an upvote.
Michael Piz’s comment below perfectly explained mathematics and it’s role within the universe. However, can it explain…
Our dear Mx Brittney Marshall, a PHD student at Rutgers , who proposed :
“The idea of 2 + 2 equaling 4 is cultural and because of western imperialism/colonization, we think of it as the only way of knowing”
(Yikes! Quick Edit. I tried to paste a photo of Dear Mx Brittney and nearly broke the internet. sorry for the temporary mess)
It was fun trying to read Ms. Brittney’s innermost html secrets while it lasted.
Rrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaacccccccccciiiiiiiiiisssssssssssssssssss!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I also just remembered that the concept of the Zero (a concept readily applicable to our liberal cohorts) was developed by the Indians (of India) and eventually transmitted to Europe by the Arabs/Muslims. So a core idea within Western Civilization was actually a colonization of Europe by non-Westerners imperialistic designs on mankind (Islamic conquest of India, Mongol conquest of the Middle East, etc.).
But the Islamic world must have taken that concept of zero to heart as they have not really added much to it since they co-opted it (except that supplied by the West in due time). See Libya, Egypt, SA, Iraq, Afghanistan, et al.
I better stop after this:
In the transfinite cardinal area (2 Aleph naught + 2 Aleph naught) = 1 Aleph naught. A different mathematical “culture”, except it appears that the trans culture has made little headway in colonizing the real and imaginary number space. [An imaginary human space may be another story].
See: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transfinite_number
Scott may be even, but sometimes I am rather odd.
Wow, I have finally succeed in my life goal of surrounding myself with people infinitely smarter than me.
I’ve got nuthin’ else….Thank y’all. 😉
I couldn’t pass this up. Listening to this BWN on my drive into work, I had a much more real, much more obvious take on the topic. And…Bill just barely dipped into where I am heading, at the very end of the segment.
The “simulation” IS Google, Facebook, Twitter, the Network News and Sunday shows the New York Times and the Hill/Reason/Slate, etc, all working in coordination to tell us that the Biden Harris campaign is up by 8, 14, 9000 over the Trump Pence campaign at this point. It certainly is a digital simulation. Electrons on a television screen or a tablet or a phone screen. In the ‘Matrix’ movie, literal cables were plugged into bodies as conduits for the simulation. In base reality, the cables are from Comcast, or the other ‘cable’ companies across the Nation. Someone is pumping information of Biden Ahead into these streams to the brains of a large amount of Americans, Canadians, Euros, Australians, etc. If we call out who we think those people are who are doing the info pumping, the simulation eliminates/silences that message (twitter/facebook).
We’re told:
Shelter in place for 2 weeks to flatten the curve
Shelter in place until a ‘cure’ is complete
You can not hear information about Hydroxycloroquine/zinc/Zpaks
Biden is Peppy and a brilliant active mind
Trump is so ill he’s gone mad
Trump is not sick, it’s a false flag
Trump is sick and irresponsible for coming out of the hospital
Trump’s doctors are lying
I could do this all day, but to close, Google/FB/Twitter/Networks/Cable News and the Sunday Shows and the NY Times are executing ‘The Simulation’. Over the last years, a lot of us have woken up to what’s happening. In many ways thanks to Bill, Steve and, yes, even Scott and many others in Conservative Media. (Yea! Parler and Rumble)
And If I may be so bold as to say the late Frank Zappa saw this coming years ago when the singer-songwriter penned the catchy tune “I’m the Slime” . Zappa was not for everyone and many of his works were fowl and disgusting to some, but this song was spot on… Ladies and Gentlemen of BWDC, I present the lyrics to the immortal classic….I’m the Slime.
I am gross and perverted, I’m obsessed ‘n deranged
I have existed for years, But very little has changed
I’m the tool of the Government, And industry too
For I am destined to rule, And regulate you
I may be vile and pernicious, But you can’t look away
I make you think I’m delicious, With the stuff that I say
I’m the best you can get, Have you guessed me yet?
I’m the slime oozin’ out From your TV set!
You will obey me while I lead you, And eat the garbage that I feed you
Until the day that we don’t need you, Don’t go for help… no one will heed you
Your mind is totally controlled, It has been stuffed into my mold
And you will do as you are told, Until the rights to you are sold
That’s right, folks…
Don’t touch that dial
Well, I am the slime from your video
Oozin’ along on your livin’ room floor
I am the slime from your video
Can’t stop the slime, people, lookit me go
Zappa always rates an upvote.
What do you mean ” and, yes, even Scott …” ?? Scott is not that odd, so he must be even. And he is even with Steven and Bill. All 3 amigos pull their weight on R/L but it seems that Scott is the one really turning the crank on the BWN segments – they would be rather different without his dedicated efforts. On top of that, he has grown a killer beard that will be the delight of his grandchildren when he plays St. Nick in December!
“You can not hear information about Hydroxycloroquine/zinc/Zpaks” It is hard to hear about something that you can barely know how to pronounce! Let’s ask Ben Rhodes, or “even” Joe Biden, to say it three times quickly in a row and see what comes out!
Now you just made me laugh. Thanks George. Can you imagine? Biden saying Hydroxycloroquine 1 time not even 3 times?
And the Scott jab was with Love.
I am not very smart about modern songs, etc. but wasn’t it the Beattle’s (sp?) who wrote “Love …. Love … Love…. all you need is love” ??
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” is a little easier to handle than “Love your neighbor as yourself”, especially if he/she is posting a Biden/Harris sign in their front lawn.
Biden: “Hydrox…y…..you know…THE THING! Come On!!!!”
As a famous person once said: “what difference, at this point, does it make?”
Oh and I see what you did there. Nicely played. At first I thought you made a mistake calling Right Angle R/L ….but then I realized you were using the uppercase L as a 90 degree right angle emoji, and I felt much happier for the rest of the morning.
I wish I could claim I did that on purpose, but actually that is a display of the smidgen of dyslexia (or whatever) that I must have.
So I have now disproved your “Reply to George Walther
October 15, 2020 11:03 AM”
Now, if I had used a 7, V, >, or <, then maybe your idea would be valid. Some days I am smart; some days I am clever; but it seems that I am not both smart and clever on the same day.
This isn’t a good forum for discussing in detail the physics involved in this particular topic, which I have studied in some depth as an interested layman. So, I’ll summarize my own conclusion about whether we live in a simulation, based on what I have learned over the years:
No.
The big bang being preceded by another big bang reminds me of Isaac Asimov’s story “The Last Question” where someone asks the largest computer around if entropy can be reversed, and the computer does just that. But the question still remains, how did the first big bang occur, or we going to a state of continuous cycling of heat death followed by the big bang, followed by heat death, etc?
YES! …. or, … uuummmm, … hhhuuummmmm, …., oh, maybe, ….
What if this continuous cycle is happening at a million times per second? Each microsecond your existence is replaced by a new you in a new universe one microsecond older (or gigi, or pico, or femto, second older).
Reminded me of SF story from boyhood: computers get bigger and more complex and more interconnected as mankind expands across the universe, eventually biggest smartest computer ever is all that is left of a cold dead universe. Computer thinks … and thinks… and thinks… and after a very long time, it says “Let there be light!”
Spinoza said that God was the “substance of the universe”. A great genius who died too young of silicosis from his day job as a glass grinder/ optical polisher. Too bad he did not know to “wear a mask”.
From your description, especially the “Let there be light.” , the SF story you are referring to is “The Last Question” by Asimov
Thanks for the feedback. I was not positive that Asimov was the author. Sometime in the last 12 years after retiring, I did re-read the Foundation trilogy, and I also accumulated and read most of the Dune pre-quells and sequels I could find by Herbert or his sons. But I now need to give them all back to the book store as I no longer focus on any fiction (except some forms of politics), instead reading history, science, a little law, and some forms of politics.
Although they were all great,Ghost in the Machine is my favorite album by The Police. If we were in an unreal reality I’d prefer that pretentious crap that Sting wrote in his post-Police solo career.
Goes back to the Question if a tree falls in the forest and no one is there does it make any sound? If no one is there is there a forest?
If you look real closely, you will see that Darwin was there.
And Lionell said the same thing: STFU, aka stately trees with forest undergrowth. Something Bill knows all about, but Gavin what’s his name doesn’t.
The fundamental flaw to ALL such wild ass speculation is that reality is required to be created by the equations thought up by self proclaimed theoretical physicist’s. Reality isn’t real. It is created by the willful imagination of creatures who do not exist and who are created by that self same imagination. In other words, it is turtles all the way down but the top turtle does not exist.
This is beyond psychotic. It is nothing but the ruminations of putrefied brains bent upon destroying everything that is. Frankenstein’s monster was a friendly giant by comparison.
If you think I am wrong, PROVE your position. Until then: STFU!
That comes from the false idea that mathematics has a real, non-conceptual existence and somehow underlies or precedes reality and so is capable of creating and directing existence. We have Plato to thank for making that nonsense popular. (That also leads to the ridiculous belief that consciousness can create reality and/or change it to whatever a mind can imagine. Thence leftism.)
Mathematics is a human invention that we use to describe the universe. While it is extremely good at doing so, it is not and cannot be perfect at it – just ask Gödel. The universe does what it does and we are able to describe what we see with an astonishing but never complete degree of accuracy. Until science accepts that fact it will continue down fruitless paths such as the simulation belief.
It is not only way out in the weeds, it is so far out it is beyond the weeds it is beyond any desert or ocean and beyond any semblance of reality. It is psychotic to the max and beyond any edge of reality.
They question their own existence. On what bases? They don’t have any bases but their own psychosis. If they don’t exist, they can be ignored as totally completely irrelevant to anything. If they are psychotic, they must be sequestered from we sane individuals for their and our sake.
I wouldn’t say they’re psychotic. Many times, you have to go down a dead end before you realize that’s what it is. The simulation conclusion is suggested by the science and math. It’s just that many scientists haven’t yet realized that it’s a dead end.
To be psychotic is to be detached from reality. They present the ultimate detachment from anything real. They unwilling to follow the evidence their senses give them but are more than willing to postulate a super existent scientist creating a simulation that creates them so they can imagine that scientist creating them. All without the possibility of any evidence but their own self confessed non-existence.
It is the logical picking them selves up using their own boot straps. They are projecting that their imagination creates that which creates them so they can imagine that something actually creating them. Psychotic is the only word that fits!
Dead end? It is dead before it starts!