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Right Angle: Backstage (07-13-2021)

Office supplies from heaven kick off this week’s backstage meeting of the men of Right Angle.

Right Angle: Backstage (07-13-2021)

Office supplies from heaven kick off this week’s backstage meeting of the men of Right Angle. If this is your first time, try to act civilized. If you’ve been here before, carry on. Thanks.

https://youtu.be/1C2oSbW7RXQ

34 replies on “Right Angle: Backstage (07-13-2021)”

Tawdry is just the right word.
The Abbey at St. Audrey’s found a way for the nuns to produce lace in the fashion of their sainted queen from the 7th Century at low cost and sell lace necklaces at the fair. After 1000 years or so, such cheap lace trinkets worn by less than nobility was considered foolishly gaudy and obviously less than noble. T’Audrey- lace-> tawdry

I have great difficulty reading facial expressions, but even I could understand Steve’s expression when Scott was discussing universal compulsory service.

IMHO it’s easy to be lost in this as everyone have a different idea what “service” means in theory and practice.
In big part of the world it’s mandatory to attend school till some age like 14-16 or completion of a number of classes. And there’s little fuss about that idea. We want the next generation to learn to read, write, count, have basic knowledge.
Some of that time could be allocated to weapon training, warfare, etc. How that is different to gym or workshop? That would cover plenty of what we think “service” is.
The other part is more tricky: deploying people into a danger zone, be it recovery from some disaster or an actual shooting front. Sending people against their will traditionally creates lots of coffins and pretty little gain I could observe.
But the latter is not what was discussed in the episode.

I see below Starship Troopers being dismissed. The basic idea is not a bad one–service guarantees citizenship. The idea was that only those who had served could be trusted to put the interests of the nation ahead of their own. I agree service should not be compulsory, but I can also see a structure that if you want to hold office, you have to have served first. Just like I can see if you want to vote on how tax dollars will be allocated, you need to be a net tax PAYER not a net benefits RECIPIENT.

Israelis conscript all Jewish (secular or religious) citizens over 18 of both sexes with a few exceptions on various grounds. After what we in America would consider a brief stint of active duty (2.5 years for men, 2 years for women) an Israeli can be on active reserve duty until the age of 51. This works fine for them. The military, regardless of any individual Israeli’s political views, is a common experience for all of them.

A lot of Jewish people, for whatever reasons, lean heavily towards socialism. There’s a lot of what we would consider socialism in their political system today but … I’ve often thought that one thing that has kept Israel from plummeting into the black hole of real, all out, government mandated, Venezuela-style socialism is the fact that they all share that one common experience.

The concept of mandatory service, be it in a military role or a civil capacity, is nothing novel. There are contemporary and historical models that can be drawn on for insight.

Mandatory service for one year in some capacity, as mentioned by Scott, is an intriguing idea. I’m not saying I’m all for it and I’ll wait for the episode concerning this to air before firming up an opinion, if then. Still …

The vast majority of our problem today is whiney, economically privileged young people with no real cause to fight for so to our detriment as a nation they invent causes in order to feel good about themselves. Note that not all the whiney, economically privileged young people are still young, some are the older version of that problem and it’s increasingly clear they don’t age well.

So I can’t say that the idea of pulling them out of their bubbles and giving them a good dose of the real world is a totally negative concept. That part I think is a great idea, it’s the means and mechanism that I’m not sure of.

I think the Swiss do, or did, also have universal military service and do the “everyone keeps a gun at home” part as well.

Socialism can work, if the people all believe in something greater than themselves and the Jewish people, as a people, might be more inclined to that than most. I would not say they all do but the “shared common experience” of their culture probably does enough to make it work.. mostly. Too many other cultures are too individualistic and too many know that the State cannot watch them all the time, so they can get away with slacking off. Too bad too many of them are not based on the individual enough to actually make something of themselves.

While I might think that some sort of compulsory public service would do a world of good for some people, I still think it would end up being a mess. What would be the penalty for not doing your public service? Who would be responsible for policing it? Would a person be frogmarched into a soup kitchen and forced to ladle? And I’m guessing that the wealthy would figure out a way to buy their children out of the requirement, making it the poor and middle class actually serving. Also, the government could end up not having enough jobs that have no skill requirement or education requirement. It looks good on paper, but would end up costing too much to implement and monitor. I look forward to seeing your video on it.

WWII carriers didn’t have the fully flared “hurricane” bow like today’s carriers have. Even so, go to the USS Intrepid Museum website and take a look at the dents in her bow plating in the title picture of the website. I seem to remember one of the carriers that went thru the typhoon during the war had her flight deck damaged because of the waves. I rode USS Wasp in a tropical storm in the North Atlantic and she would ride over 2 waves and crash headlong into the 3rd!

In the military, the closer you get to “flag” rank, it becomes more of WHO you know than WHAT you know or your performance. My dad joined the Navy in Dec of 1941 as a Navy Reserve officer in order to get his flight training before the war was over. Eventually he was “passed over” 3 times for Commander because he wasn’t an Academy grad. He was Reserve on active duty for 28 years and was the Atlantic Fleet Admiral’s private pilot, but they still held his 3rd stripe! He reluctantly when back to reserve status and became a full Commander and in charge of a reserve Naval Air station. Most branches of the military are “good old boy” networks and if you’re not wearing that academy ring, you ain’t in it!

Bill, think about the age of sail and black powder cannon where you have to light the cannon on the downroll of the ship in order to hit your target at it’s waterline or visa-versa to bring down her masts. You also have to fire the catapult today using the same principle. The British designed their “skijump” flight decks to help with this problem. Somewhere in the internet, there is a video of a jet aircraft just missing the green-water bow wave on a launch.

Compulsory military service? I think that this is yet one more bad idea devised to solve one problem while creating many more.
Consider, if you will, the potential for even more war with human fodder mandated by the State. Heinlein’s Starship Troopers should not be treated as a how-to manual, rather it should be considered as a mockery of an absurdly-tyrannical interstellar society.
Please don’t misunderstand my opposition to such notions as a rejection of the exemplary citizens produced by military service. I applaud all who serve; however, my mother and father taught me how to make my bed and take responsibility for my life.
The solution being sought is achieved from the benefits of the family unit with both a mother and father.

“I applaud all who serve; however, my mother and father taught me how to make my bed and take responsibility for my life.”

Yeah, mine taught me that too. Before I enlisted in the Marine Corps. Being “taught how to make your bed” has so little to do with military service that it should not be contained in the same sentence and thus equated to actual military duty.

If you were serious about applauding us who have served, that was a major fail.

Military barracks life contains quite a few things designed to assure good hygiene, order, uniformity and discipline but garrison living standards are not what the military is about. That stuff is just there to avoid chaos.

I can’t help but think you believe that “making your bed and taking responsibility for your life” somehow equates to living in mud and dust and bugs, with the worst rashes in the world, in mortal peril — Thousands of miles from where you slept in your well made bed. Your parents might have taught you to make your bed but they didn’t teach you what it is like to live under those conditions.

You know, when you serve military duty it’s not just about you. Your family is involved too, be it from worrying about you and not knowing if your OK or even still alive, or for those who make careers out of service that move their families an average of every 2 -3 years to new duty assignments …

Or even just your Mom who taught you how to make your bed as a kid — Then looks at the nice neat tightly folded “hospital corners” on the bed you slept in while home on leave and realizes she’s never seen a bed that well made.

Because my Mom did just that. Then she said “You didn’t need to go to Boot Camp, I could have taught you that.” And my Dad replied, “Maybe, but you couldn’t have made him do it like that. You also couldn’t teach him to be someone greatly feared by our enemies either.”

Then my Mom cried. She cried a lot more than that time too.

Please don’t equate something as superfluous as your bed making skills to military duty. It’s an insult if you meant it to be or not.

You’re welcome anyway.

“The solution being sought is achieved from the benefits of the family unit with both a mother and father.”

Bravo, Captain Obvious. The nuclear family is certainly in peril and its decline a major cause of our current social problems. I’m thrilled at your grasp of the situation and anxiously awaiting your plan to make sure every single American is mandated a “… family unit with both a mother and father.”

Do tell, I can hardly wait to see that.

OMG! Did you even listen to Bill’s commentary about making one’s bed? I was not the one to initiate that implicit association. You are probably the most oversensitive Marine with whom I’ve ever interacted, and your closing ad hominem attacks upon me for writing what should be blatantly obvious to all (but it is not) demonstrates a small very mind. Go cry on someone else’s shoulder.

Of course ST should be treated as a how-to manual.
But it only works if one actually reads it. Instead of following the stupid crowd that throws references by situations it states the very opposite.
Like the main thing here: in ST service is strictly voluntary. And there is a fair explanation why using non-volunteers would be a braindead idea.
Guess you never read the book, but watched the brainsucked movie that managed to mix up everything and post the opposite message for most — too bad the estate can’t sue the film company for that kind of ruining. And it does not qualify as satire, that would require some working framework, not just everyone doing all kind of stupid stuff while still prevailing in the REAL war — that is just what the current USA army tries to get away with. An wil only until there’s an actual enemy and real battle situation.

Guess you never read the book …

Incorrect! I read the book many years ago, and what I recall was a society that only allowed rights to citizens, and the attainment of citizen status required military service. It seems to me that such a choice is not really a choice — rather it was an implicit mandate one was required to follow in order to be considered a “whole person” by the State. This smacks a lot of the 3/5 rule for negro slaves in our history regardless of either the historical or fictional justifications. Perhaps you are correct, and Heinlein believed this “voluntary” (implicitly mandatory?) military service was an ideal; however, since I know not what he believed, I prefer to grant the term satire to the notion and assume he was likewise critical of it.
In the USA, as you obviously know, our rights are declared to be granted by our Creator (define that entity how you wish), not government; therefore, any such “mandate” for military service (either explicit or implicit) is anathema to citizenship in our constitutional republic.
Voluntary service (without preconditions as were described in ST) is to be applauded; as are those who volunteer.
—
Edit: I agree the movie franchise was horrific, and we may be deserving of reparations for being subjected to it.

Read the book again. Seriously, it’s no fair to discuss it based on some shadow you keep in mind. Also, try to set the usual indoctrination about “democracy is a good thing” aside.
If your idea of “whole person” is one who rule over others, then sure, you’re right, but by now we should know well where that path leads. Do you enjoy the leftist paradise that is based on that?
In ST the society is based on similar ideas that was written in the USA constitution: you can rule over yourself, can pursuit your happiness to whatever extent, until you bump into others’ stuff.
And to get “citizenship”, that has only that one feature: you can set policy over other people, you have to provide evidence FIRST that you bear responsibility. And you’re okay to lay down your life, if needed for the society.

The exact opposite of what we have, where the politicians carve power and only required to be rotten scumbags in order to get and keep it.

This notion “mandatory service” remains a pile of steaming BS. I assure you that I will continue support my country in the way I deem appropriate. Like the damned COVID flu shot, to which I will not submit, I will not be subjected to the whims of others’ perverse ideas of what is appropriate forms of support. I pay my taxes, volunteer in community, and have taught my offspring to do the same. It is not up to the group thinking “village” to determine that as insufficient unless the inalienable rights of other individuals are infringed.
Anything more resounds of the authoritarianism that I assume that you oppose as much as I do.

Everyone above the rank of Commander in the Navy needs to be relieved.
And above the rank of Captain in all the other services. Don’t get me started on Space Force’ rank system

For those of you who aren’t aware of this, Space Force has been in existence since 1957 after Sputnik was launched. We knew space would be a new frontier for military control with surveillance satellites and possible weapons platforms. It just wasn’t an entity of it’s own. Before NASA, the Army and the Navy were competing to be the first to get a bird aloft. Look up Vanguard and Explorer I.

How do we treat our hero’s vs celebrities. Why do we even bother to listen to nay sayers at all? There are thousands of examples where that strategy has failed yet even as a species we don’t seem to learn. America used to be immune to this condition.

Every time I read your posts, it’s in Ron Swanson’s voice. Can’t help it. 🙂

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