Scott Ott brings us some encouraging news: a recent study indicates that performing acts of kindness seem to be even more effective at reducing the symptoms of chronic depression than the myriad of medications issued to the 20 million Americans suffering from this debilitating ailment. Too good to be true? Nope. So far, it appears to be real.
28 replies on “Can Kindness Cure Depression?”
Gentlemen, while there is absolutely nothing wrong with covering this topic, I posit that there are major things afoot that may be a better use of your analytical evaluations to bring to us some clarity in the swirling cesspool of the under reported.
Boy, did the comments you guys made resonate with me. As a long-retired old guy I volunteer to help teach primary school kids to learn to ride unicycles in a well structured program in a public school. Whether it is teaching math or teaching kids a balance skill, staying involved with kids in a positive manner gives me a constant educational experience, a positive feeling, and a boost in my attitude after every session with them even though they wear me out physically (a very good “worn out” feeling). I think you have to get outside yourself in a positive way for as long as you can!
Over the years, I would buy an occasional lunch for a VET I would see, and always, anonymously, and I still smile thinking about such a little thing! And, I continue to search for humor daily to share! My family was small, and I had an older brother, “Mr. Negative”, and I learned the opposite from friends, business, and mentors, and my Mom and Dad! No need for further details with my brother, but I’m sure Prozac would have helped. I have always loved the candidness of Bill, Scott, Steve, and Zo with their lives. That resonates! Thank You!
I have a small framed quote from long ago, purported to be said by Abe Lincoln: “Help thy brother’s boat ashore and lo, thine own has crossed the river.”
VA gave me more drugs than I can count for PTSD over decades long treatment. In the end I found my faint, returned to church, and got off the dope. I ‘healed myself’ by faith.
A strong belief in God is still the best medicine.
I’m retired on permanent disability and have been getting SSDI benefits for over 6 years now. When I had to walk away from my job in 2015 and retire, my doctor told me that he was worried about my mental health as well as my physical health.
I remember disregarding his worries, I thought that I was fine. It only took a few months before I became depressed and angry at everyone and everything. I’ve been taking depression medication ever since. He started me on something(I can’t remember what it was), but I continued to become even more depressed.
I was in chronic, constant pain(still am) and I became suicidal. When I told my wife and our kids, they took me back to my doctor, and he changed my medication to 2 drugs that I’ve been taking ever since.
Our 40+ year marriage has had the usual ups and downs, and we went to some counseling over 20 years ago where the person we were seeing mentioned something he called our “love languages”. It basically refers to anything that makes you happy, or feel good about yourself.
My wife has said that my “love language” is doing things for others, and she’s right. Whenever I go out of my way to do something as trivial as holding a door for someone, or getting something down from a shelf, or helping with something that’s heavy, I like doing it.
Since I’ve been retired, I now do most of the cooking, and I clean the house, vacuum, do laundry, maintain our 2 cars inside and out(I love a clean car/truck). I was only 56 when I had to retire, and I’m almost 64 now. My wife still works full time at her job, she’s been there for over 25 years, but she still has a few more years until she can retire. So my job now is keeping the house.
Doing something nice for another person can help you feel better about yourself for a short time, but it’s not a long term solution, at least not for me. It definitely can’t hurt though.
I’m a Traditional Naturopath and have been for over 40 years. Now I’m approaching 80 years old. My specialty is emotional healing. You are spot-on with kindness but before someone can even entertain the concept of kindness, they have to change their viewpoint. So being grateful helps one do this. I tell a client they have to be grateful for 5 things every day and they can’t repeat any of them. Once they find this easy to do, we can then include being kind to someone once a day. Some people never get to kindness, They are simply too self-involved. I also have found a huge correlation between vitamin D deficiency and depression. Many MD’s think that a good level is 40nl mg but really if I can get them to consistently take vitamin D3 and get those levels up to around 80, it is amazing how much better they feel! Creating a sympathetic and calm understanding of their concerns also helps them feel they deserve to feel better. BornForHealth.com
Very interesting. One of favorite movies is White Christmas and my favorite song from that is called “Counting my Blessings”
When I’m worried and I can’t sleep
I count my blessings instead of sheep
And I fall asleep counting my blessings
When my bankroll is getting small
I think of when I had none at all
And I fall asleep counting my blessings
I think about a nursery and I picture curly heads
And one by one I count them as they slumber in their beds
If you’re worried and you can’t sleep
Just count your blessings instead of sheep
And you’ll fall asleep counting your blessings
My wife and I were so taken with that song many years ago that this became our personal way of saying Grace before dinner. We talk about what we are thankful for that day and pray that God watch out for our friends and family that need it.
It doesn’t completely shield us from worry (my wife especially) but it does make a big difference in outlook to focus on what is good in life, even if only once a day, rather than what is messed up. Making a list of 5 things that are jacked up each day would be easy.
A little honest narcissism can be a positive thing. If you can examine your own reflection for both positives and flaws that helps you get a better grasp on reality.
Depression is a very real and terrible thing. I don’t think I’m depressed but I’m lucky/blessed/fortunate in that. Both my Mom and her mother, my grandmother, had it pretty bad with depression. I’m an American first and foremost but I’m a full blooded Dane by ethnic heritage. Danes are notorious for suffering from depression. So much so that one of the most famous literary Danes ever created had it written into his character … That would be Hamlet, whom I’m sure all of you have at least heard of.
My mom was always committing acts of kindness and aid to others. She picked up the hobby of beading quite a while ago and would spend a good part of her time making amazing beadwork that she would donate to the local women’s shelter so that they could anonymously distribute them to their residents at Christmas.
She did a lot of other things too as the need arose but she was still very depressed at times so I don’t know how well this thing Scott is talking about applies to severe depression.
They’re both gone now but my Grandma did the same thing as my Mom with quilting and crochet work. It could easily be that doing such things was helpful to them in combating their depression and that’s why they did them. I don’t know and like I said, I can’t ask them about it now.
I’m an American first just like you, and just like you, my heritage is Danish and Norwegian. We were not told that our mom’s mother, our great grandmother, hanged herself in the barn at the dairy farm in Wisconsin where she grew up until we were all adults. Our mom was only 3 years old when it happened.
We’d always thought that our grandma “shorty” was our mom’s mother, we didn’t know the truth that our grandfather had re-married and they had 2 more children, our aunt and uncle.
We always wondered what could drive the mother of a 3 year old to hang herself. Maybe it was severe chronic depression, we’ll never know.
Scandinavians seem particularly susceptible to severe depression, Danes are the worst of the Norse for this. I don’t know if it’s something that comes from our ancestors living so far north or what. Eskimos and such don’t seem to have this problem.
Happily it seems to have skipped me. If I were depressed I’d think that would be something a person would be aware of.
So if you look at your grandpa and he doesn’t seem the type to drive someone to a short rope and tall stool … I’d consider it to be a genetic thing. It runs in the family and while being kind and helping (deserving) people is always a good policy I don’t think it’s really going to completely solve something you carry in your genes.
Still, it makes the world a better place so it’s definitely not a waste to be nice to people who merit it.
My little and only sister uses some sort of antidepressant too and she’s one of the best people I’ve ever known. (I think she balances out me in that regard. I can be a real a-hole.) I don’t know what they give her but there’s a serious difference if she’s not taking it.
So I call her up every day, or nearly so. She only lives about 200 yards from me so I try to drop in too. Especially on a summer at dusk to sit on the porch, watch the world go by and drink a beer or two.
I usually have some sort of silly story I made up to cheer her up. Lately I’ve been making the case that her puppy is actually a baby giraffe and she should give it to me for ‘safe keeping’. You never know when a giraffe will turn feral and attack. VERY dangerous those giraffes. The puppy is a Cav-a-Poo so the absurdity is intentional.
We’re very close so I can tell when she needs a giggle. I’m making up for all the times in our lives when I’ve been a PITA. By being a different, funnier, happier sort of PITA. 🙂
There is something to living in the areas where the sun is not visible for long periods. I recall almost precisely where I was when I first heard the term: Seasonal Affective Disorder. I was spending my first of two winters in Buffalo, NY. Not that far north; however, Buffalo has this remarkable geological feature directly to the west: Lake Erie. And another to the north: Lake Ontario. These lakes have some serious affect on the weather. In addition to the potential for massive amounts of snow, they tend to make the months from October to April very overcast.
You can go weeks if not months without a sunny day. People tended to get very depressed. They sought counseling and meds. However, most clinicians there in the late 80s early 90s actually had a different Rx: Go on vacation where there is sunshine or get a full spectrum lamp.
The impact on the bodies natural rhythms is a real thing that manifests in a depressive mood.
Scandinavian countries, with nearby water plus very far north latitude, probably have time of no sun and overcast generally dreary days.
Alaska, while North, is such a massive state that even in winter there are some remarkable clear days.
At least that is my unsolicited and very biased (couldn’t leave Buffalo fast enough even though it was a very good job and July was amazing) $0.02.
Take it for what it cost!
I wonder if the new (more or less) LED bulbs are going to contribute to or dilute the effects of SAD? The “smart” ones can be tuned to various ranges from cold white to warm white and you can buy static bulbs across the gamut of white light. Here in my place I have a combination all the white light spectrum and quite a few bulbs lit during waking hours. Which uses way less electricity than just a few of the old 60-100 watt incandescents.
I grew up in north central Minnesota and we had days of brilliant sunshine in the winter interspersed with clouds and snow. Arctic high pressure systems slump down the middle of the U.S. from the pole and Minnesota is right in the center of that when it happens. This brings still, very clear, very very very very cold conditions. You can see the humidity condensing out of the air as falling ice crystals, not snow, in a clear sky.
When the snow pack is first established in early winter and from then on until snow melt when you get a clear, bright period like that it makes a blinding white desert of the landscape.
Point being there’s no lack of sunshine there but it’s too damn cold to go out in it. Unless you’re an idiot like me, I’d get my Ray Bans frozen to my cheeks out hunting furbearers (fox and coyotes) in that kind of weather. Had to wear metal frame sunglasses because anything with a plastic frame would shatter at the least excuse.
Sometimes the snow field was so complete and during a full moon it was so bright outside that I could hunt without using any artificial light at all and still see with color vision. Of course when those conditions existed I was outside exposed to the very coldest temperatures and yeah, looking back that makes me an idiot.
I recall visiting a client in Minneapolis in a Feb. I thought it was ludicrously cold (single digits). They were making snowmobiling plans. It takes all kinds and people enjoy different things.
People who come from warmer climates think the sub-zero cold of someplace like Minnesota is unbearable. It’s not. I would go out in that weather all the time. I lived there, it was that or be housebound for six months out of the year. I had a snowmobile, which we call a ‘sled’ and used it to get to hunting spots, to go on ‘poker runs’ and all kinds of fun stuff in the winter.
But …
You’ll notice that I don’t live there anymore. I don’t miss snowmobiling at all. Over here in Tidewater the winters are wonderfully mild, by my standards. Even when we get snow which is extremely rare it’s gone in a few days or a week at most. In Minnesota a snowflake that falls in October might be on the ground until May.
The standards of everyone around me are a little different. Most of my neighbors hate the winter here. I didn’t know what a Southern Winter Grump was until I moved here. I love giving those people a hard time about their attitude towards what to me is a very pleasant and mild time of year.
Which for some reason makes them even more entertainingly grumpy. It’s a positive feedback loop and a fine winter hobby.
🙂
Our daughter, as well as my youngest sister all have to deal with SAD. Luckily, they can afford to go to a sunny location a couple of times during the winters here.
BTW – the ability to make someone laugh, especially when they are having a bad day is something I would call a GIFT.
You sound like a wonderful brother. Your sister is a lucky girl!
Lol, I’m not so sure my sister would agree with the ‘wonderful brother’ part. I pick on her mercilessly. She once told me that if I all-of-a-sudden started treating her ‘nice’ she’d be worried that she had something terminal that I knew about and she didn’t.
But when her husband collapsed from a cardiac condition and their son was 5 years old — A phone call to me to come home and help her raise her kid incase her husband died meant I was on a plane headed back to America from overseas within 12 hours. As it turned out he survived but when she called that was far from a certainty.
NO ONE is allowed to pick on my sister but me. It is my right and prerogative as firstborn (and only) son and I guard that right zealously.
When we were kids we were at a company picnic and a softball game got started up among us kids. There was a boy that gave my sister grief over just about everything she did in the game, from batting and running to throwing. I warned him once. He ignored me. When he pushed her to the ground I beat the stuffings out of him.
It turned out that was the boss’s kid I had whaled the tar out of. My dad got fired. He told me …
“That’s OK, I can get another job. You protect your sister at all costs.”
I have told this story to my sons and grandsons to make the point that in our family we defend our womenfolk no matter what. It stuck.
One of my grandsons got suspended from school for three days for beating the crap out of a boy who continued to pick on his sister after he’d been warned.
The teachers and school administration had been made aware of the problem rightfully and through proper channels. They chose to ignore the situation.
When the school called and his Mom (my daughter-in-law) went to pick him up she took him out for ice cream and pizza on the way home. Before she left the school she told the Principal that if she didn’t want any more of her students getting the snot stomped out of them by her son then they’d better be actively preventing boys from bullying little girls.
My sister’s husband, my brother-in-law, is a decent and gentle man. I’m not a bit gentle. My dad had died just a few days before their wedding and it fell to me to walk my sister down the aisle.
Before the ceremony started we men in the wedding party were hanging out outside the church. I politely took my soon to be brother-in-law aside and said …
“I have to say this to be fair to you. You’re marrying my sister. If you ever hurt her, don’t worry about cops and social services and all that nonsense. Worry about ME. I don’t think you’re that kind of guy but before you say ‘I do’ that’s something I feel you need to be made aware of. It is my sincere hope that this topic never, ever comes up between you and me again.”
And it never has in the 25+ years they’ve been married.
I am of the unassailable opinion that men, especially predatory men, would do well to never ever forget that a girl or a woman is someone’s daughter, sister, niece, grand daughter etc. If you think she’s just a piece of meat for your own enjoyment someone like me may very well come looking for you to help you understand the error of your ways.
That attitude is one my Dad taught me, I taught my kids and they taught their kids.
At the end of the day my sister knows she can count on me 100% and the same applies in reverse.
So I reckon it depends on how you define “wonderful brother” whether that description fits me or not.
Yes, I’d still call you a wonderful brother. The love you have for your sister (and the other women in your life) is so evident it brought tears to my eyes. You are a true gem.
Our grandpa Sorenson was awesome, and according to our mom, a very hard working family man. They had their own small dairy farm, plus he worked at the local creamery.
I’ve been dealing with clinical depression ever since my retirement in ’15. The weather here in northern Washington state doesn’t help.
My maternal Grandfather was the same sort of person. Hard working, honest to a fault, quick with a chuckle … In many, many ways an admirable, peaceful, kind, loving man. He was and still is my personal hero.
I am his only grandson and there is not one minute of my life up until I carried him to his grave that I ever had the slightest doubt that that old man loved me fiercely and unconditionally.
When I was travelling the world making it Safe for Democracy it was always that Grandfather and Grandmother I would conjure up in my mind as the people I was protecting. I was also very grateful that they didn’t know and couldn’t see the kinds of things their Grandson was hip deep in. That would only have frightened and worried them.
I think it broke Grandpa’s heart, at least a little, when I joined the Marine Corps. Kind doesn’t mean naïve and gentle doesn’t mean stupid. Grandpa knew that the choice I had made meant that the kid he loved so much was going away and no matter what else happened a part of him would be gone for good.
He was right of course, though I couldn’t see it at the time. His wisdom was one of many things I loved him for.
This is very helpful, guys, thank you ! My sister and I are both in our 70s and very close. We have very different outlooks and attitudes, but when I do little things for her, I experience a sense of joy, something like laughter suddenly bubbling up. It does, in fact, refocus and rebalance my view of things. Of course, she does the same for me, which I hope delights her as well.
I found, during labor with my second child of all things, that focusing outward helped a lot. The woman in the labor room with me was focusing on the pain and she was utterly miserable. I was joking with the nurses and aides and the pain was tolerable, at least up to the last few minutes. I’ve made focusing outward the backbone of my life. I try to do charitable work as best I can, including helping a bright young man in Zambia have success, by bringing together a bunch (468 currently) of like-minded folks on Facebook, who have done absolute wonders in funding Matt’s education and living conditions. My group is called Mathews’ Family, if anyone wants to check us out. I also make it a point to smile a lot and joke with clerks, waitresses, etc. when I’m out and about. Seeing them react to my smiles and pleasantness is delightful and makes me want to do it more. A lifetime of focusing outward is much more healthy than the opposite, and helps make that lifetime worthwhile.
Like many of these episodes, this did not go the way I thought it would at the jump. Really interesting discussion, gents. Great points all around and I hope the people out in Rumble and YT land actually watch to the end.
I suspect this will make many uncomfortable. Suggestion: don’t read the comments on this one.
For some reason, if I see someone needing something I can help with, I feel I need to help.
Normally, its not something big. At 5ft 10, my most common thing is helping someone getting something up high.
Result: They get what they wanted. And I get a “I’m glad I could help.” reaction.
Some years back I took a spiritual gifts test. I tested very high in service, followed by knowledge and a smattering of a few other things.
Seems in church I always found a service thing to do. Normally something that would not be noticed unless it stopped being done. (Like putting out chairs, putting out bulletins, counting and depositing the offering, etc)
One big exception: Singing in choirs. But even then, I rarely did solos or main part. Typically harmonies.
It seems to make me glad when I do these things. (Especially singing)
I do that too, to a degree. I.E — I grew up in a Northern Tier State and leaving someone in the ditch in the winter without trying to help them has the potential to be a death sentence.
I have also been helped by strangers a lot in the past so I look at helping others as paying back/paying forward.
Sadly, like anything else, there’s a pitfall here too. I have a neighbor who has a “White Knight” personality disorder. He’s always making promises he doesn’t keep and sticking his nose in where it doesn’t belong in case he can ‘help’. He takes the helping thing to extremes which generally turns out to be no help at all. Presumably because it makes him feel good to express an intention even if he doesn’t follow up on it. He might be addicted to the dopamine ‘hit’ he gets from ‘helping’.
That’s OK, after I moved here and got that situation scoped out I just say “thanks” and ignore the White Knight aspect of his personality. He’s not a bad man by any stretch, he’s just not quite the good man he allows himself to appear to be at first blush. We all have our flaws and part of wisdom is not allowing the flaws of others to be detrimental to your own situation.
To be fair, he’s helped me a lot when I moved here by telling me where I can get good service, the best place to buy various materials, places to stay away from and things like that. He’s very useful for his knowledge and experience, promises not so much.
What Bill says “You’re not going to live long enough to make every mistake possible so learn from the mistakes of others.” is sound advice that doesn’t only apply to piloting aircraft.
For my part my no is no and my yes is yes. It seriously eats at me not to do something I have said I will. Being aware of that I do not commit to anything I’m not willing to fully follow up with. That’s part and parcel of the positive side of narcissism I mentioned in another post. I know what I’m like, what I’m willing to commit to and follow up on so I don’t commit if it’s something I’m not happy to do and if I do commit I’m happy to follow up on it too.
Guilt is a vector to depression and I have plenty of things in my life to feel guilty about without adding even more. As for past events I’ve accepted that there’s nothing I can do to change things now.
Oh boy, do I try to do pay back if possible, and knowing its not always possible I do pay forward.
But it seems a lot of what I do I don’t even think about it in that way. Its almost automatic.
My yes is yes and my no is no. (Hmmmm…. Sounds a bit Biblical?” 😏) I hesitate to promise I will do something. I say instead that ill try my best. (No! Try not! Do, or do not! There is no try!)😁
People who I do that to will tell you that promise is better than some people’s “I swear.”
But I do fail more than I like. Human, that way.
Dennis Prager gives a good argument that “Happiness is a Moral Obligation” in his Masters Class. He argues that God made us to be happy. If we aren’t happy, we can at least act happy.
Then again, as Bill brings up, Prozac helps a percentage of people get to the starting line.