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Herd Immunity by April? With COVID-19 Cases Down and Vaccinations Up Hope Rises

With cases of COVID-19 down, and vaccinations up, some think we’ll reach herd immunity sometime in April. What will we do when VC-Day actually arrives?

Herd Immunity by April? With COVID-19 Cases Down and Vaccinations Up Hope Rises

[NOTE: Episode recorded minutes before Texas Gov. Greg Abbott lifted the mask mandate and state restrictions on business capacity.] With cases of COVID-19 down, and vaccinations up, some think we’ll reach herd immunity sometime in April. What will we do when VC-Day actually arrives?

Here’s a link to The Wall Street Journal op-ed Steve Green mentioned:
We’ll Have Herd Immunity by April 

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137 replies on “Herd Immunity by April? With COVID-19 Cases Down and Vaccinations Up Hope Rises”

Scott said, “I’m not a scientist. I’m not a doctor. I don’t pretend to know how this is all gonna play out. But we’re headed in the right directions. We’re doing some of the right things.”

I am a scientist. I am a doctor. Scott, everything we’ve done about this virus has been wrong from the very beginning. Allow me to explain.

First, we were told this virus is much more deadly than the flu. Not true. Not even a little more. Furthermore, it is only a threat to a small fraction of the population and we know who that fraction is and we know how to protect them. Instead, we systematically put that fraction at *greater* risk because of our policies.

Second, we were told that covid is much more contagious than the flu, even if you have no symptoms. Wrong again. The CDC’s own web site even defines a significant risk of contracting covid as requiring face-to-face, close proximity with a symptomatic person for 10 minutes to half an hour. Less than that, the risk is not significant.

Think about that for a moment.

The whole idea for everyone to wear a mask and to social distance was based on the false premise that even if you have no symptoms, you might still have the virus and be very contagious. I repeat. That is FALSE! If you are not symptomatic, your risk of spreading is very small.

We have known for quite a long time that it takes a lot of face time from a symptomatic person, to pass along the virus. The risk from a passing encounter with a non-symptomatic person is nil. Yet, we treat EVERYONE, symptoms or not, as if they are extremely contagious.

Even though only a small part of the population is at risk from covid, by treating everyone as if they are contagious, we have put everyone at much greater risk. Risk from drug abuse, alcohol abuse, spouse abuse, suicide. Lives destroyed, businesses lost. And don’t forget all of the people with other legitimate medical needs who were turned away from hospitals to make (unneeded) room for covid patients. The “cure” has killed many more people than the disease. You call that “moving in the right direction”, Scott?

Lastly, the masks, social distancing and lock downs have prevented us from achieving herd immunity. We could have achieved it naturally by mid-summer last year. All we had to do was protect those who are at risk and otherwise try to spread the virus as widely as possible, while being careful not to overwhelming the system. We proved that is possible during our flatten the curve exercise. The policies to slow the spread have done nothing but prevent herd immunity from being achieved and allowed the threat to continue indefinitely while putting more people’s lives at risk, destroying businesses and lively hoods.

Everything. Absolutely everything was wrong in the way this virus was handled. It’s almost as if they had to work very hard at making the wrong decisions.

Yeah, all that. And more. A point worth mentioning that we knew vert early the most likely victims. And among all the hard-handed measures kinda most places started with infecting the elderly storing facilities.
And we could write a book on all the negative effects of the measures on the health in general. The life lost due to those surpasses even the inflated official figures of covid-related let alone the real ones.

COVID worshipers will never relinquish their beloved fear idol. We will battle elements of the COVID government for a long time to come.

So Steve…. I have never addressed you directly, and I apologize in advance for the tone, I’m not great at flowery speech but I shall attempt to be entertaining… Here Goes: I’m not so sanguine in regards to the ‘Vaccination Celebration’…..
When every single Main Stream News and Media Outlet are Singing the Praises of the Vaccine, how in the heck can you not consider for perhaps a moment….. who are they??? what interest do they represent… who pay’s (owns) them… agenda??
Then there is of course at this point in time a considerable library of peer reviewed medical research addressing the miss information being disseminated regarding the planedemic… available on your keyboard.
I have posted here several times, various topics, always strive for honesty.

BTW, I know roughly 50 people who have had it. No one below the age of 20 had symptoms. Only three went to the hospital, all over 65. None died.
But that’s what the overall numbers show.

Scott…
I believeo NPR came of age during the Nineties when it (and CNN?) was the place to get the News.
And, the dotcom boom came during the nineties.
And…. Only radio; no smartphones or podcasts so…
I want to know how my stocks are doing in my ignorant jump on the dotcom bandwagon portfolio…
So – all the news stations started doing the DOW.
NPR, being caught in the irrelevant SYLvia PAjooli time loop, has continued… because they are clueless beyond clueless.

Don’t hold your breath on 4/1. They’ll find another reason to extend the lockdowns and face diapers. Until we all refuse to comply it will continue.

Myths, urban legends and tin-foil hattery concerning the COVID-19 virus vaccinations. Here’s the other side of the argument against getting the shot(s) –

  1. It’s “gene therapy” or a “genetically modified organism”.

No, it’s not. It doesn’t alter your genes in any way. Nor is it an organism of any sort. There is nothing living nor anything that has ever lived in the vaccine. Unlike older traditional vaccines that contain killed or weakened viruses.

It’s not “gene therapy” — it’s a synthetically created protein therapy. The mRNA in the vaccine is a protein. Proteins come in a lot of forms, from delicious steaks and chops to deadly prions that are nearly indestructible. The protein in the vaccine mimics the protein attack spikes on the virus (the “corona” in corona viruses), these are the microscopic “lock picks” the virus uses to enter your cells. The vaccine triggers an immune response from your own immune system that stops the virus from being able to “unlock” and enter your cells to reproduce. This is exactly how your own, naturally acquired immunity works on diseases you’ve already had. Without exposing you to the toxic byproducts of weakened or killed viruses.

When you see someone spouting “gene therapy” in this situation you can be certain that they don’t really understand what they’re on about and are just repeating some scare gibberish they’ve read elsewhere. Likely because they’ve gone looking for it intentionally to bolster their own confirmation bias. This kind of person is a victim and you should feel sorry for them. This kind of thing is used a lot against people who are susceptible to such influences.

The manifestations vary but this is the kind of person who panics at the word “radiation” believing that all radiation of any sort is harmful/and or deadly. Yet doesn’t realize every time they step out in to sunshine they are bathed in radiation all across the electromagnetic spectrum.

The active part of the vaccine is a ribonucleic acid, or “RNA” for short. RNA is a component in every living organism. You eat it all the time, every day. Without it your body can build none of the structures you need to survive. The RNA in the vaccine is just a protein pre-cursor that is used to build the desired protein(s) in your body. The mRNA in the vaccine (messenger RNA) is specifically constructed to specifically build the proteins that prevent the COVID-19 or any of its variants from entering your cells.

This is actually a serious breakthrough in medical science along the same lines of penicillin and the Salk Polio Vaccine. Like those and other breakthroughs, this will lead to even more and better medical treatments. There’s even a potential for this kind of thing to eventually provide a cure for cancer.

2. The vaccine is not tested or approved by the FDA.

Both are untrue. The vaccine has gone through the same basic process with the same basic safeguards that any vaccine has to with one big exception. That exception is that the process has been accelerated and compressed. Things that caused useless time lapses were omitted, this is generally called “cutting the red tape” and we all usually approve of this kind of thing because as we all know, “red tape” isn’t useful, it just clogs up the gears.

Where once the prospective drug to be released might be passed from testing to testing to testing at various facilities for various sorts of examination in serial this time that was done in parallel. The vaccine wasn’t sent to venue after venue, it was sent to all venues at once. Then tested, the test results examined, where there were needs for further testing indicated by the results it was sent back to all venues, etc. This accomplishes the exact same result in a much accelerated time frame.

The FDA has approved this vaccine through the process of issuing an EUA, Emergency Use Authorization. That does not mean that the vaccine can only be applied to emergency cases like some seem to think. It means that the FDA has waved a lot of the proceedures that would generate more data down to a fine degree of information. The FDA EUA is not a lesser “safety” approval, the safety has already been established or an EUA would not be issued. It can take years, sometimes decades for full FDA approval and licensing of medical treatments. That lengthy process does us no good in the case of a rapidly spreading problem. That’s why there’s an EUA system in place and has been one since long before anyone ever heard of COVID-19. The COVID-19 vaccines have been tested and approved for distribution to the general public according to long standing policies and proceedures developed by the medical community itself.

That said,there are never any guarantees and no vaccine is 100% safe, ever. People have anaphylactic reactions and other problems that make them sick and sometimes they even die from vaccines that have been tested, approved and licensed for distribution for decades. This problem affects a very, very tiny percentage of the overall population that gets vaccinated with any vaccine, but it exists and it is a known issue. So bear that in mind when you read about a death or several that are attributed to this vaccine. At this point in time, as I write this right now, millions and millions have been vaccinated and so far there is not one single death directly attributable to the COVID vaccine.

3.“… there are low to zero cases of other flu this past season … etc.”

This is just silly. The CDC is publishing figures right now that are current. Yes, the incidence of reported flu cases are lower this year because the measures that inhibit the spread of COVID-19 also happen to inhibit the spread of everything else too. It’s not magic and it’s not really all that remarkable that this effect would apply to all communicable diseases. Here’s the numbers —

https://gis.cdc.gov/grasp/fluview/fluportaldashboard.html

So here’s the thing about this claim and similar claims. There is a definite statistical effect of anti-COVID measures. A lot of deaths that might have been reported as heart attacks, cancer etc. are being reported as COVID deaths because the person who died, died with COVID not of COVID. In once case a person who died in a motorcycle wreck was reported as a COVID death because he had the virus in his system when he crashed his bike.

One thing you can be certain of, someone making the claim in #3 and telling you to go look up the numbers, hasn’t actually gone and looked up any numbers himself, or didn’t understand what he was reading if he did. Most likely he got his information from one of the many, many conspiracy theory mongers on the internet because that is the only place you’re going to see that kind of thing advanced as reality. It’s not. Those sites are not credible. If someone wants to believe them that’s their business but don’t let that stop you from getting vaccinated.

I’ve done a lot of actual, real, no-shit research on this situation from credible, authoritative, genuinely canonical information sources and I’m going to get that shot the minute it becomes available to me. You can think what you want, get a shot or not, believe me or not, I don’t care. If you think I’m uniformed or naïve you’re just wrong and I won’t give you any more credit than you deserve. Which is zero. I’m putting this up so that those who don’t know one way or another have a counter argument to the people spreading nonsense about the vaccine. Suit yourself.

I am glad there are people such as yourself with the fortitude to explore these issues so deeply and then report your findings. Thanks for your efforts.

Both shallow and broad (integrative), and deep and detailed, explorations have their place in our various social and political situations.

You are absolutely welcome, If I gave you usable information that makes my day as that was my intention. I did oversimplify a lot but the result doesn’t really decrease the quality of the information.

As long as we don’t all turn into hosts for interstellar reptiles, I’m okay…

Nope, like lobster. With French truffles. A serious delicacy, which might explain the scarcity. Next time I see a Gorn, it’s going in my freezer.

That also applies to any other Saurian bipeds I happen to find wandering around in Virginia. I also love the way they sizzle and hiss when roasted in diamonds, charcoal, sulfur and saltpeter.

It’s good to be at the top of the food chain 🙂

Wow, there are actually intelligent lifeforms in this comment section. Most comment sections seem to consist of silly remarks by trolls accompanied by back and forth name calling. Thank you for providing this information and thank you for oversimplifying it. That made it accessible for me and also made it more likely I will pass it along to others. You have done a true service in helping us make an informed decision about the Covid vaccine.

Again confirming that I like the cut of you jib, sir.
However, I will deduct points for mixing metaphors with respect to cutting red tape and clogging up the gears. 😉

Quote excerpt from ACTS above:
“The vaccine triggers an immune response from your own immune system that stops the virus from being able to “unlock” and enter your cells to reproduce. This is exactly how your own, naturally acquired immunity works on diseases you’ve already had. Without exposing you to the toxic byproducts of weakened or killed viruses.”

And without having to experience the full complement of symptoms and potential complications, unlike immunity acquired by being made sick by the pathogen.

Informative, and even better, rational. Thank you.

I read your profile for the 2nd time and really wanted to thank you for your service and you continue that service with this informative and insightful post. Many thanks and blessings to you and yours.

I thank you for your gift of blessings. As a Brother in Christ I can, from personal experience, tell you most sincerely that those are some of the greatest gifts we can bestow on each other.

I have absolutely no doubt that the only reason I still walk the Earth is that the prayers of the faithful preserved me in times of immense peril. Always and continually support and hold up people you care about in prayer, often that makes all the difference to them.

Near the top of your post, you refer to the mRNA as a protein. However, mRNA is a single strand of RNA and RNA is a chain of nucleotides. Proteins, meanwhile, are chains of amino acids. RNA and mRNA is not a protein. They can assemble proteins but they are not, themselves, proteins. This is very fundamental and if that’s not correct, it makes me question your entire post. I’m guessing that, maybe you’re using an unconventional definition of protein but, I don’t thing you should do that.

You can toss bombs at Americans when you stop hiding where you live. What country are you in, Paul? Hmmm?

I was making it simple for people who have not studied any sort of medical or chemical science. See how many people actually got my point(s), technically precise though they may not be?

What I wrote about was not guidance for physicians, scientists, or meant to be published in a Merck Manual (you know what that is unless you’re from outside the US or Canada, then it’s called the MSD Manuals).

What I was not trying to do is the stupid thing doctors do by trying to impress others with how smart they are. Rather I was trying to give people information in a form they can absorb. The fact that RNA isn’t actually a protein but one of the three major biological macromolecules that are essential to life is a finer detail lost on people who do not have any education in that area. It’s “close enough” for the purpose of this discussion, it would get me an F in a college course. Unlike you I clearly know what constitutes “close enough”.

Doctors often miss the point of things trying too hard to be doctors and not hard enough to be and understand real people. They do this by nitpicking fine details that are irrelevant to the conversation. We in my circles call that “gotcha pouncing” and it is a sure sign of doctor dumbassedness and other forms of stupidity. I have a couple of doctor friends that embarrass themselves this way all the time so you’re not at all special in this regard.

I don’t log in here very often but, today I did, and I was somewhat taken aback by your strange comment that I am right now replying to.

There are two thing very strange about your comment. First, you dismissed your error (mRNA is a protein) as being an insignificant technical detail and irrelevant to the point. But the problem there is that your error WAS the point! Your whole opening salvo in #1 of your original post was “The mRNA in the vaccine is a protein.” And you followed that up with a string of other statements about proteins and proteins in the vaccine. So, no. That error was not an irrelevant technical detail. It was a foundation of your argument.

Now, it is true that mRNA plays an essential role in the production of proteins. Therefore, I considered that might be why you glossed over what mRNA is and focused on what mRNA does. On that, I was ready to acknowledge that there may be some method to your madness.

However, then you went ahead and really broke the bank. You, essentially, went on to argue that not being technically precise actually proves how much smarter you are than everyone else because, in your circle, technical precision is a sure sign of “dumbassedness and other forms of stupidity.” 

So, you argue that being wrong is evidence of intellectual superiority while being correct is proof of stupidity. I’m curious. Do you actually find this to be a persuasive strategy?

Insults and ad hominems are not winning strategies either. For example, you say “Unlike you, I clearly know what constitutes “close enough”. Or, “I have a couple of doctor friends that embarrass themselves this way all the time, so you’re not at all special in this regard.” These kinds of statements are not things on which to base an argument. They are logical fallacies and a last resort when an argument has no merit. So, don’t do that.

Interesting and helpful. I’ve been exploring a different angle. Hopefully, I’ll be able write up my findings as clearly and cogently as you have!

Steve…know that RNA vaccines “can” alter your DNA. IDK if these vaccines do or not, but do you really trust it? That’s God’s coding we’re talking about. And Man just won’t stop trying to be as God. It’s the nature of our fallen world after all. This article is only a starting point down the rabbit hole. You can also find the peer reviewed papers on mRNA vaccines. I knew about this long before there was a COVID. https://phys.org/news/2020-01-rna-effect-dna.html

We already have “junk” DNA in our chromosomes, some of it is viral DNA. Apparently your god has been engaged in GMO and doing gene splicing for some millennia now.

Perhaps you haven’t heard. Even secular scientists realize, and admit now, that there is no such thing as “junk DNA.” Which is why secular scientists won’t debate us on Genetic Entropy anymore. Just because “Man” isn’t “aware” of much of the function of our DNA, doesn’t mean it’s junk. That just means we aren’t as smart as we think we are. And Hubris is also a folly of Man. And the more we learn about it, the more we realize there is no such thing as ‘Junk’ DNA. As for God and gene splicing…that’s a fallacy based on the notion that Evolution is real. Genetic Entropy put the final nail in that coffin. And if you can show even one instance where information, like the loads of information in our DNA, coming from a non-intelligent source, then I’ll eat my hat.
https://rumble.com/vdf9o9-the-fragility-of-dna-is-the-bane-of-darwinism.html

Did you get my counter argument? It seems to be missing? Well…let me try again.
Perhaps you haven’t heard. Even secular scientists realize, and admit now, that there is no such thing as “junk DNA.” Which is why secular scientists won’t debate us on Genetic Entropy anymore. Just because “Man” isn’t “aware” of much of the function of our DNA, doesn’t mean it’s junk. That just means we aren’t as smart as we think we are. And Hubris is also a folly of Man. And the more we learn about it, the more we realize there is no such thing as ‘Junk’ DNA. As for God and gene splicing…that’s a fallacy based on the notion that Evolution is real. Genetic Entropy put the final nail in that coffin. And if you can show even one instance where information, like the loads of information in our DNA, coming from a non-intelligent source, then I’ll eat my hat.

https://rumble.com/vdf9o9-the-fragility-of-dna-is-the-bane-of-darwinism.html

The replicator based theory of evolution allows stowaway/junk DNA to almost unlimited extent (till it becomes too much burden). Till the alternative theories don’t address Occam, they can expect serious consideration.

There is a mountain of evidence for evolution. None for gods.

Can you show even one instance where information, like the loads of information in our DNA (false conflation BTW) is coming from a creator?

No actually. There is a mountain of evidence, that is “interpenetrated” as evidence for evolution. You look at a building, you know there was a builder, right? Even if that builder isn’t around…it didn’t build itself. It need an intelligence to build it.

So you’re saying buildings can build themselves? Mmkay. Nice talking with you.

I said that? Please post a screenshot of me saying that or anything like that.

It seems like you are saying building are living organisms, is that what you are saying?

You just answered “no”…and the only question I asked was, “You look at a building, you know there was a builder, right?”
If you don’t want to know your Creator, that’s fine. But me, Bill, Scott, and Zo (IDK about Steve)…we all love our God. It’s odd that you’d mock the God of those who bring you this page. And pay for it even.
A building is full of information, as is a painting, or anything that has to be made by an intelligence. The Human body has even more information than those…so you believe it happened by accident? That life comes from non-life?
I’d share more short videos, that would help you to comprehend these logical facts, since my hands tend to hurt quite a bit when typing…but I have little confidence you’d take the time to watch them. I’ll leave you with one more at least. It’s short basic, and made easy for simple minds.
https://rumble.com/vcp5g9-debunked-theres-no-evidence-for-god-d1.html

Where is the image of my words in a post where I am saying, or alleging, or implying that “buildings can build themselves.”?

A screenshot of YOUR words is not what I’m looking for.

I would think it’s clear…You did answer “No”…and that was the last question I asked. Do you need me to screen cap your reply? Fair enough…

Let’s try again so there are no misunderstandings.
A quote from you: “There is a mountain of evidence, that is “interpenetrated” as evidence for evolution.”
My “no” reply was to the entire designer fallacy and your persistent ignorance regarding science.

There is a really good course on logic being offered right now–free–by Hillsdale College. You might consider taking it. Your thinking process needs some training.
Mathematics and Logic: From Euclid to Modern Geometry
https://online.hillsdale.edu/courses/mathematics-and-logic-from-euclid-to-modern-geometry

You may have been doing “this” a long time, but you haven’t gotten any better at it.

We are, you and I, 180 degrees out of sync and there will be no unity between us.

Bible is complex text, and lot of it. It’s pretty easy to find wisdom in that text. Of the practical kind, that improves your life and others’, so passes the fruit test.

This makes plenty of smart people “believe” in the Bible. It does not make them necessarily start to interpret it too literally and attach meaning to every single letter (especially those that got in through the series of re-translations).
Those arguing agains evolution pointing at the Bible are dead wrong: nothing there precludes it. In Gen it states god created the world, but says nothing about how. We can recall Einstein be unhappy with discoveries and models at the time “God does not throw dice!”. And Pauli asked the relevant question on why he thinks he should prescribe God how to arrange the world and what methods to allow him.
From the other side, using evolution to point out religion is BS al even more folly — it is never done by any actual scientists, jsut zealots of some other belief system. Science has a clear scope, it explains what fits in it, allows predictions and verification. It does not makes statements on anything outside its scope.
Current leading evolution theory is based on replicators and are very solid. And simple too, to the level one should call trivial. If you have a pool of replicators and some can replicate more than others ==> over time we will see more of the latter and less of the former. It says nothing about how the first bunch of replicators got into the pool.
This whole dichotomy is false.

There is a vast list of “scientists,” dead and alive that would disagree with you. Including many still in academia, and even a few Astronauts. Many of the living scientists are friends of mine. One of which was fired for discovering soft tissue in a dinosaur fossil. 
To start with, evolution is a sloppy process. My God is not sloppy. Evolution is exactly that…’throwing the dice.’ Evolutionism is a religion that negates a Creator. It’s a naturalistic origin theory…one designed to negate the need for a Creator. 
It was Creation science that brought me to Christ. Seeing the myths and colorful excuses of evolutionists debunked thoroughly was the beginning of wisdom for me. It was my asking God for clarity on the matter that made my salvation possible. One of the first films I saw really hit home for me. Ben Stein’s “Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed.”
The evidence we continue to discover bares out what we read in His Word. Genetic Entropy is the final nail in the coffin of Evolutionism. Speciation or micro evolution is true, but no new information is added, and each species remains in there created kinds.
Since my hands are in pain today, I won’t be able to engage much on this topic today. Here is a link that breaks it down quickly. And the image I included is the very reason Darwinian evolution, or any evolution of species is not science. 
I will be glad to break it down one fact at a time. Maybe I will blog it here…IDK…but the very acceptance of Evolutionism is an affront to God…and I can show that is True.
https://genesisapologetics.com/faqs/theistic-evolution-whats-wrong-with-the-idea-that-god-used-evolution-to-create-everything/

I lost you midway. Yeah, evolution is a sloppy process. And results in an utter mess. You can observe it in what we call the “human body”.(*) What anyone who learned biology or medicine, or even just lived the real life and enjoying the effect can confirm.

The idea of “intelligent design” always left me baffled to the core, those using it must use the words words mean their opposite like we have with “literally” and lately “liberal”.

But certainly if that is one’s standard, I have no objection, just point out that then we are bound to use language different enough that meaningful discussion is not possible. (Before clearing that obstacle and establish some base.)

I took a look at the artice you linked, it does very poor job and only good for preaching to the choir. It keeps arguing FROM conclusion and falling back to literal text of Bible as if it was actually written by God with a single unambigous text to be understood by everyone as mandate from heaven. And we know how far it is from the case: the text was written and edited by very fallible humans even at the start, and kept transforming in all kinds of way through translations, interpretations, reinterpretations, ad-hoc emphasis and so on. I’d think smart people would keep at using it as meant originally.

In any case, if you are a Christian, as you state, don’t you feel like following His teachings? Using Occam for the basics: if he had limited time here on Earth to teach his followers things, THOSE are the important ones? And we should concentrate on those first, and leave the quarrels on other stuff aside till done? IIRC he left us the task to spread the *message of joy*. A think so many churches just taking his name in vain forgot long ago, and switched to different agenda.
I can’t recall an ask to keep bickering on the fine details of creation.
===
(*) Obviously not the single example just one is at hand for everyone.

Evolution in the Human body? With all due respect, there is no such evidence. In fact Genetic Entropy is devolution, not evolution. Please give one example of observable evolution in the Human body. And again, micro-evolution isn’t the same as the molecules-to-man version of evolution. Also, BTW, science recants the notion of vestigial organs. They all have a purpose, but aren’t required to live. That supports Biblical Creation as well.
I firmly believe, that theistic evolution is a compromise of the authority of God’s Word. And I can give example after example of how it simply cannot stand on it’s own. It’s mostly the colorful sales tactics of evolutionists that deceives many Christians. Challenging the narrative of state funded scientific academia is something many are only now seeing necessary, such as the nonsense of more than two genders. This started 150 years ago when Atheists invaded academia.
We clearly agree in some matters, or we wouldn’t be here on this site. So while Gallstones thinks we can not be unified in anything, simply because we have different views on some subjects, is completely antithetical to the very foundation of our Bill of Rights that we as Conservatives support. We don’t have to agree on everything, but we should be able to be civil and willing to discuss our differences.
If you’re confident in your belief, then it shouldn’t be a problem challenging that belief, right? So let’s get started….
From my friend Dr. Robert Carter: https://rumble.com/vd44th-genetic-entropy-vs-simple-organisms-was-darwin-right.html
And if challenging your belief isn’t too much of an inconvenience, here’s his Rumble channel. https://rumble.com/user/BiblicalGenetics
(PS. if my comments seem confusing, it may be because I am trying to touch a bit on all arguments for Biblical Creation at once, since my hands are screaming right now. That’s how convicted I am in the Creation account.)

I was talking about how the human body is constructed. It’s just incredibly poor design. Even as creation by a total idiot at helm with some purpose in mind. Let alone one aiming to create something that lasts and is in his image.
If nothing else, that alone should direct the attention that this passage is meant *not* literally and not for the physical body, but something else.

For the other part, if you don’t see enough evidence, I’m sure not the one to open your eyes to see.

Denial in this area is similar to that going in forums on SPECREL. Where people keep repeating that the Galilei-transformation is the only sensible way to add speeds. What may be irrelevant, the fact is that stuff WORKS based on the specrel equations: we could put equipment on the Moon, Mars, edge of the solar system. Also the GPS provides the correct data. Based on the other equations all that would show drastically different results. And that should be enough proof.

Biology and medicine also uses a lot of science with actual hard-proven results. If that does not convince you that it has solid base for explaining the observed reality, what will?

Btw there was a creationist FAQ even 30 years ago that covers all your objections in detail. Sure you can just refuse to look at it like priests in Galilei’s time knew better that Jupiter can’t have moons from the same Bible. And they don’t have to look into the looking glass G created to know that.

I absolutely don’t mind my views getting challenged on this or any other matter, but your links are just so low quality material not passig the threshold to name challenge.
However, if you mean to have an actual discussion on the details, I can go an extra mile with you. Just let’s be practical. As starters, open a topic in the forum section, as this infrastructure sucks. And for the first step select a narrow scope. Like in science where several theories exist though or actual experiments are created where the difference manifests — then talking or executing them may allow accepting the correct ones. Pick something that can be hopefully constructive.

Poor design? Death entered the world as a result of sin. The second law of thermodynamics, the law of entropy explains that all. Neanderthals are simply pre-flood Man. The only reason 1% of Humans today are genetically related, is because of Genetic Entropy. Even secular scientists say that Neanderthals were more perfect than Man. That’s because they don’t realize they are simply early Man. Evolution is a bottom up world view, and Creation is a top down world view. Meaning, as the Bible clearly shows, God Created us perfect, but our defiance of his one simple rule brought death into the world. That’s evident in every facet of existence. Even down to moral entropy. Each generation is not only losing genetic information, observation show that we are also degrading in our own morals, language, etc. Devolution.
I’m going to have to leave you with my backstory. I am 52 years old, and I did my very first science experiment at 3. Science and music have always been my life. I have debated innumerable Atheists and plenty of secular scientists. I have only had 3 comprehensive debates with theistic evolutionists, and two of them are now Creationists. The third is still mulling it over.
Perhaps when my hands feel better, we can continue this discussion. As for now, I have given you plenty of avenues where you can find more information on the subject.
If you like the Hoover Institute, or Wallbuilders, know they are also Creation believers. So as long as we still agree on the core issues of our Faith, such as the Gospel, we can have civil debate on the less dogmatic teachings of the Bible.

And I studied biology for decades, passed all kinds of exams to have legally accepted proof that I understand how the organism works for theory and practice.
Safe bet that if you only bothered to read anough to pass a physiology exam on any MD/VMD university you’d leave most of your ideas well behind.

But if you want to explain all the problems with how the human body is constructed with SIN, how do you explain the exact same problems in cats, dogs, most other animals around us, that were supposedly created before the man. Outside the snake whay they all have to suffer from the same engineering problems?
Do you actually believe that after Adam was cast out of the garden his body got altered to inject all kind of subtle or obvious trouble, and then also every animal and other living stuff got tainted the same way?

Actually, I was inflicted with a mutated form of ADHD which I can thank Democrats of 1979 for and verify with a very left leaning University…Harvard. That’s a story in itself. But God used that disorder for Good. Sufficed to say, I would be a scientist today if it wasn’t for Fluoride and government controlled schools. But I digress.
It’s not about my credentials, and the Bible has a lot to say about worldly knowledge. And none of it good. Ego is why He allowed all this.
When I came to Christ through science, I was the last person to be capable of debating science as a result of my ADHD. Which still tends to cause me to bounce from topic to topic in a desire to get all the information I have retained across to the person I am debating. I didn’t want to engage in debate, I sucked at it. But that’s exactly what He called me to. I asked in pray, “why would you lead me to something I am not good at?” The first thing that came to my mind was Moses. He wasn’t exactly literate.
Anyhow, as I said, most of the links or recommended documentaries I mentioned do far better than I in explaining it. Knowing it is no problem for me, but Satan does his damnedest to keep me from speaking God’s Truth. Another great documentary is “Is Genesis History?” Most of my scientist friends are a part of it. I just hope you’ll check some of these things out.
My ministry is working on video productions, in part, because of the limitations my Arthritis. So hopefully, we’ll be able to start rolling soon. I feel convicted that I was called here by God to do this. So in His time, not mine, His Will will be done. I tend to allow my ADHD push me to do too much, and try to throw every argument out at once. Making my arguments harder to follow. I prayed about it, and the first word to come to me was “patience.” So I’m going to have to trust that maybe you’ll look into some of these sources I offered. God bless, and Stay Bold!

I quoted on some other trhread, “God created Arakis to train the faithful.”
You’ll figure out why you got here. Maybe to teach is, maybe to learn. As Paul observed, at some point you can leave the training wheels behind?
I’m really lost on your motivation. Gen has plenty of interesting stuff, and people who teach morals can use it as gold mine. And do so.
Just look at my favorite place https://www.pbc.org/sermon-catalog and pick Genesis, 1 or 2 or 3. Unfortunately from there you have to work some as many links got broken or the text crippled, on the bright side the PDFs are usually still around. I’m sure Zeisler’s 17 msg series provide plenty to learn even to those who memorized the whole text of the Bible. You can try https://cdn.pbc.org/Main_Service/1997/11/15/4558.pdf as a random sample.

Back to the point, I just not understand why people, instead of digging the gold from the mine instead go on crusade about alternative views that are created for completely different purpose and so lack even a fair intersection. So even if you could disprove them, would not create any progress I could see.

Both, I am hear to teach and to learn. I’ve already done both. Thankfully, the person I was speaking with was as willing to review my viewpoint as I was his. There isn’t an argument from evolutionists that I haven’t heard, and refuted. And that is why my ADHD tends to get in the way of getting my arguments across. I tend to want to drop it all at once. But I have to hope that you will review what I offered as sources by scientists that can better argue the case than I am at this moment.
One point of fact, we may be able to write things down and learn from them, but too often that is mistaken as evidence of evolution. And as we can see, the further we devolve, the less we actually do learn from that history. More evidence for the Creation account.
I’m going to have to take my leave of this conversation, partly because Scott is still working on fixing an error that’s flagged my email, which makes it really frustrating to reply when my replies aren’t getting posted. Maybe next week, I will do a blog on this. I’ll pray about it, and see where the Spirit leads me. Again…God bless.

Oh…as I said to Gallstones, not one advancement in science requires evolution. Not one secular scientist has been able to point to one modern advancement that requires the Darwinian beliefs. Theoretical science is merely that..theoretical. My links I used as sources explain most of your arguments.

Most of my arguments? I didn’t even start providing them, just asked you a few random questions. 🙂 I used to spend time in evo vs. crea topics back on FIDOnet and early internet in the 90s, then left out of boredom seeing all the same non-points repeated.
I’m not a missionary. If someone want to believe earth has shape of banana, all power to him. If you want to learn how your position makes no sense, I can maybe help.
However if you want to serve as missionary and convert people to your view, then you need to boost your game bigtime, and especially learn actual biology to even understand the other party’s objection properly. (And yeah, it’s a multi-year journey even to the first level, with no shortcuts. )

You know what they say about opinions. And I’ve been well informed about you and yours. Romans 1:22

“Evolution in the Human body? With all due respect, there is no such evidence.”

Okay, just one random example: explain how we got the spinal column.
(And then the ~100 other problems related to standing on 2 legs using a body that evolved to work in horizontal position, where the solutions make some sense.)

The bible is not a scientific text. It is a collection of myth stories. It doesn’t matter what the bible says, it is not evidence of reality. You cannot use the bible as its own authority. That is called circular logic.

The bible is not a scientific text. It is a collection of myth stories. It doesn’t matter what the bible says, it is not evidence of reality. You cannot use the bible as its own authority. That is called circular logic.

Occam’s razor…in the beginning something happened to nothing, and it created everything…or In the Beginning God…? Simple explanation for the extreme complexities of existence. But the ego of the Atheist can not allow there to be anyone greater than themselves. Hubris…plain and simple.

Enjoy having your mind being blown by Truth. If unity means believing there is no intended purpose to life…then so be it.

“Even if that builder isn’t around…it didn’t build itself.”
Try that argument on a snowflake!

I’m really glad you brought this up, because it typifies a serious problem people have in understanding this situation.

Yea, absolutely RNA can alter your DNA in applicable conditions wherein epigenetic and gene modification scenarios are occuring. There is no doubt of this.

However, nothing in the article you linked to, and I did go read the whole thing, refers to any sort of mechanism involved in mRNA vaccination or vaccines. NONE. It’s just not there. What you seem to have done is having seen “RNA” then applied that to everything that involves RNA … Which I’m sorry is kind of silly. That’s akin to reading an article on the deadly aspects of CO (carbon monoxide) and then assuming that everyone who ever inhaled a molecule of CO is … Dead.

They’re not. Neither is everything that refers to RNA a threat to your genes. The article you cite lists a very specific, narrow consideration of RNA involvement that has not a damn thing to do with this vaccine. You clearly don’t understand that, and I sincerely urge you to learn more. I don’t think you’re stupid and I think you could absorb that knowledge if you chose to. So try not to be so lazy if you’re going to spout opinions on this topic in public.

If you’re wrong and even one person dies because they followed your ignorant advice no matter how well intentioned — YOU KILLED THEM.

Words matter.

So far, to date as I write this, not one single death can be directly attributed to the COVID vaccination(s). If I’m wrong, no one dies. If you’re wrong, people die. Shame on you for not researching this more thoroughly and making sure you actually know what you’re talking about.

As far as God goes … Science, real science, does not limit God nor trespass on His Domain. It merely describes God and the rules by which He created all that exists. Including your genes and mine. Science is a discovery of God and His methods. Exploring the human genome is no more a trespass than Galileo and Newton exploring the motions of celestial bodies. You, and I’m sad to see you do this, make God entirely too small. He’s a lot bigger than you appear to think He is.

Actually, I said this article is only a starting point. It led me to another article that lead me to peer reviewed papers that actually boasted about mRNA vaccines being capable of altering DNA. I failed to save the link to that paper. Now if I hadn’t been inflicted with a learning disability back in 1979, I’d been more vigilant in saving that article. Which, btw, a very Liberal University accidentally exposed the Democrat party for introducing the chemicals that caused my brain disorder, into our school systems. And as you can clearly see, I didn’t suggest anyone not take the vaccine, and in fact I even said, I don’t know if these vaccines do this. And saying that I killed someone because someone “MADE A CHOICE” to follow what I said, that’s not on me, especially since I didn’t actually tell anyone not to take it. Free Will.
As for deaths related to COVID Vaccines…the jury is still out on that one. https://nypost.com/2021/01/15/23-die-in-norway-after-receiving-pfizer-covid-19-vaccine/
Man playing with God’s coding, without knowing enough about it, that’s like a kid playing with a loaded weapon.

Um … Yeah. Brain disorder. YYSSW.

There are no people in your life that would make choices based on your recommendations … YYSSW and you have my sympathies. There certainly are people in my life that make choices based on what I recommend so I can’t identify with that.

Man has always “played with God’s coding” since he struck the first fire with flint to become the keeper and master of flame — and perhaps before that even. I’m sorry but you’re not enough of an authority to say who knows enough about what … You have a self professed brain disorder and you sound like a 1950’s horror movie … There are things men were never meant to know! Spooky.

My apologies, I don’t mean to do all this ad hominem but I just can’t take people who say what you say seriously. You’ll have to do better if that’s what you want from me.

I’m not mocking anything, Brian. You would serve your own interests best not to bring up your “disorder” at all. We don’t need to know about that but now that I do I also have to take everything you said in the light of that information.

Because henceforth I will never be sure if I’m talking to your “disorder”, if you’re using your “disorder” as an excuse or a crutch, if you think your “disorder” gives you some sort of intersectional identity victimhood that you’re tryiing to play against or if you’re just full of shit and don’t even have a “disorder”.

It’s a bit like telling people you have an incurable carbuncle. We don’t care, we don’t want to know about it.

You might think disclosing your “disorder” is an explanation for some sort of lack but it’s not. The fact that you felt you had to work it in to our very first conversation with no real contextual basis tells me all I need to know about you and your “disorder”.

I further could not care less about the Social Security Office and am not likely to tell them anything at all under any circumstances not immediately related to my own account so … That was just stupid.

Sorry, I don’t suffer needy types gladly. Thank you for your prayers and … We’re done. Good bye Brian.

Oh…equating messing with the very building blocks in which God created us in His own image, and altering the materials in world around is vastly different. He didn’t make us for the world, He made the world for us. That’s all.

I will leave you with one last thing. I fought my entire life to be normal. What ever that is.
It wasn’t until God preformed a “verifiable” miracle on me that I had realized He had a reason for keeping me from becoming what I wanted to be. Which was a scientist. He knew that my ego would have never allowed me to come to know Him. So mock away. But my story is one that I can hold my head up high. As you can see, before you tossed your ad hom at me…I can admit when I may be mistaken. I’m not that egotistical person I once was…I know how to be humble.
Now if you want to know more about the miracle…or actually miracles…then ask Dr. Patrick Erwin of Geisinger Bloomsburg Pa. As for my disorder…I don’t care if you believe me. God did lift me up and cure most of my disorder. My Dysthymia was gone the very moment I asked for God’s forgiveness. And as for my learning disability…He was the one that led me to discover the learning techniques that turned my learning disability into an ability…too late to become a scientist, but not too late to be of use. Which is why I have so many scientist friends today.
So before you judge a person on a few words, maybe you should put your ego aside and find out more about a person…huh? God bless.

Welcome to the human race, Brian. You would probably die if I told you of all the things I’ve been through if you think that your personal trials and tribulations are significant enough to lecture strangers on the internet over. I’m glad you’re doing better but you’re not the only person who ever faced and overcame hardships in his life. Be well, and again, Good Bye Brian, I’m done talking to you now and I’m not going to pay attention to you anymore.

Oh…I didn’t even tell you the half of it..don’t worry, I’ll spare you. Wait for the movie. lol But being homeless for a large portion of my life does give one some interesting stories. lol

I’m not that egotistical person I once was…I know how to be humble.

It’s not showing, bud. Try harder.

I have admitted my errs. I’m not perfect. We’re all still learning. And in the morning I may be even more humble about it. But it would be the fallacy fallacy to take my faults and ignore the facts I didn’t screw up. Just because I gave a poor argument, doesn’t mean my entire argument is void.

OK. You’ll need to prove your humility to others and not just assert it. Good luck.

Actually, I don’t have to prove anything to any person. God knows my heart. And if you read everything I said, you might catch a glimpse of my humility. As I said, I know I erred in at least not verifying whether or not the peer reviewed paper was substantiated or not. As soon as I was challenged, I looked into it again. And I found an article that seems to refute the paper. So there’s the honest humility. Did you miss that?

I will admit, my bring up my disorder may have been an appeal to emotion, however your dismissive attitude doesn’t exactly give you the moral high ground. The blame does fall on me for allowing your attitude to move me to such recourse. I’ll reflect on this, hopefully you’ll do likewise. Seriously, God bless.

He did, I just wasn’t listening too well. The fact that I can admit “where” I was wrong is due to the wonderful works He did in my life, even though I don’t deserve it, is a testament to that fact. To be certain, just because I failed on part of my arguments on the vaccines, doesn’t mean I was wrong totally. There have been studies done on using vaccines to alter human DNA. Just not mRNA ones. So just because one can be wrong on part, doesn’t take away from where they were right.

I’ve found one article ( https://www.cbc.ca/news/health/covid-19-vaccine-clinical-trial-questions-answers-1.5838512 ) that might refute the paper ( https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6631684/ ) in which I arrived at my conclusion. However, in these times, I don’t know who to trust but God. Which is one reason I am not taking the vaccine. Even though I am in the higher risk category. Plus, all other vaccines I’ve taken came with terrible side effects for me.
One of the reasons I have difficulty in organizing information I’ve obtained, is that disorder I mentioned. While I am extremely literate, when it comes to the written word, I have to read the text multiple times to retain the information. Which can lead me to take short cuts unfortunately. But when I use audio and visual stimuli, I can retain nearly 100% of the information. Which is why prefer documentaries, and audio books. In fact, I’ve memorized a large portion of the Bible by listening to an audio Bible when I sleep, along with daily study.
But again, if you can blame me for what someone does as a result of anything I actually said…then you give Liberals a similar argument that the gun, and not the person using it, is the problem.

There is no reverse translation from RNA to DNA (except for special virus group containing HIV). But smuggling RNA fragments into the cell can have a number of unknown effects directly and the effect of the used vector is also a big unknown for long term fallout.

The mechanism in the article exists, but is not relevant to the vaccines that inject the segment for the spike protein — that is certainly not coded anywhere int the cells to bind.

Yeah..I covered that. I crossed my wires it seems. While I know there have been papers done on using vaccines to alter DNA, the RNA vaccines aren’t it.

No known exposure to it but tested positive for the China virus on Feb 25. Had the extreme body aches, fever, loss of sense of taste and loss of appetite.. Very miserable for about 4 days. Stayed in bed, slept as much as possible.. Now weak, but on the mend. No pulmonary symptoms, no cough or congestion. Doctor said to wait three months to take the vaccine. I never intended to take the vaccine and won’t, for sure now.Not advising anyone else—Just my opinion. It was actually the sore aching muscles and bones which were the worst symptoms. I lost ten pounds! Thanks be to God I am feeling stronger every day. Glad to be on the other side of the China crapper! Excuse my French.

How wonderful that you made it through all that and are getting better. Welcome back to the fray!

I had these same symptoms in late Sept of 2019, was hospitalized with septic pneumonia for 3 days, discharged, and was very weak for about 3 additional days. They didn’t know what caused it or even exactly what it was but I’ve made a full recovery with no lasting effects. I will not take the vaccine because I don’t see the need for it.

“Wait three months” as in mandatory skip that period, not as you need it after.

It was clear, in the heartland, in mid November, that the scare tactics were going into high gear before the holidays. And yet the masses somehow decided that seeing their families was of more importance. But we didn’t really have a spike after Thanksgiving, or Christmas. Something happened in California [still not in the heartland] and a bit in Florida… and then more cases rising [to the sound of a tire pump in the background].
We are wired for responsibility in my family, so we never went wild. But we have grown children, their spouses, and extended family. We see each other. As often as we can. And for a year, none of us really caught any illness.
A couple of the kids had been ill in January 2020… we weren’t sure what that was, but I was putting money on Influenza B… with no easy way to know at that time.
Then the four in this house became ill in January 2021. I would easily be considered high risk. And Steve, most of us had a brief stretch of losing some of our sense of smell and taste… I think it’s mostly back, if not entirely. I had a couple nights of panic, because… anxiety, knowing my own health issues.. But our household was prepared to manage if we got sick. And we did manage.
The humor is found in that the rest of the nation had a free-fall in cases while we finally caught the bugger. [And we have NO idea how we all caught it.] People we knew, in our area, had been proudly posting pics of themselves immediately after getting the gene therapy [masking itself as a vaccine]… and then a couple of them immediately came down with the actual virus, in the strangest of coincidents. Cases levels were falling fast, and the scare tactics were in overdrive to be afraid of new variants. And the cases keep falling.
All that’s left, for this house, is waiting on the antibodies test results. While Gov Pritzger tells us again [today] that everyone MUST get a vaccine… and I laugh a bit, but set my resolve even more.

If anyone still trusts the “FDA approval” of anything, they are way misinformed.
The FDA is a bought and paid for federal agency that is part of the “swamp”.
Why so many “medications” approved so quickly? Why all the GMO food? Why all the preservatives, artificial flavors/colors, over processed “foods” full of pesticides & herbicides? Why so many people on multiple medications they never get off of?
Another agency/federal employees that fully support the coffers of Big Pharm, Big Ag, Grocers of America, etc.
Trust the pharm co’s putting out the vax? Really? Look at their records. Look at their debacles in 3rd world countries! Look at their ties to Gill Bates, Gavi, Fauci/Birx, WHO, UN, etc.
They were given “immunity” from the negative affects of their “vaccines” many years ago.
We’ve been indoctrinated and brain washed on so many levels and we believe it’s just our elected politicians. We think med’s/vax are better than our immune system it seems. (For a 99.8 or more chance of survival?)
Why so many people on so many medications and have so many diseases as compared to 30 or 40 years ago? Why children sicker than they’ve been in history? Why so many obese kids?
They poison our food, our water (think Flint, MI), keep us on med’s, and poison the sky (recent news story on this as well-look up CIA & chem trails).
Several years ago the CEO of Nestle stated it was not a human right to have free access to clean water! All the while buying up all the natural spring water companies, etc.
No, I’m not a conspiracy person. This stuff sticks out to me. Been observing it for many years.
Sorry for the rant.

Thanks for your service to a “partially” grateful nation. you have earned the right to rant. God bless

Thank you.
Ever feel like you’ve stumbled into a crowd of sleep walkers and you’re the only one awake?

Your question “Why so many people on multiple medications they never get off of?” hits close to home for me. Whenever I go to a new doctor, or have a new dental technician reviewing & updating my medical history, I’m always asked “What prescription medications are you taking?” And my reply is “I’m not taking any prescriptions”, which results in a brief pause accompanied by a puzzled look and followed by the exclamation “YOU’RE NOT TAKING *ANY* PRESCRIPTIONS???”

So I wonder, am I a freak because I don’t take anything (aside from the vitamin D supplement and low-dose aspirin that my doctor thinks are a good idea? He must be a one-in-a-million doctor for not filling me up with meds.

You are the rare case, unfortunately.
For decades doctors have been taught to push med’s for everything. They often get a “cut” of revenues from prescribing from BigPharm too.
They are NOT taught preventative, holistic, common sense strategies, or the ability of the human body (which is FAR smarter than they are) to take care of itself.
They are taught hubris and prescribe and “try this and this” until something sticks approach.
It’s rare to find a doctor who’ll tell it like it is. Example: “Doctor, I feel bloated all the time.” Doctor says, “Well, Craig, perhaps cutting down on the 4 beers you have every night might help. Try that and if the bloating continues, come back and see me.”
We have been conditioned for instant gratification, continual dopamine rushes, and a pill to fix everything versus prevention and lifestyle changes.
We’ve been conditioned to take not trust our body, but doctors.

The rot is deeper than that. It’s not just the doctors, but in many places the whole system.
Here 30 years ago the doctors examined the patient, if thought like it, wrote a prescription *that only had the patient name and the drug*, and that was it. The dr. was fully in charge what he does, how he does it. And it worked fine, the few exception was not worth noticing.
TBH drug consumption was pretty high even then, especially in a few categories like antibiotics and anxiolithics, but with no real yardstick to compare against, and could be improved in a number of sensible ways.
However, the all wise ministry started to fiddle with what requires prescription and the doctors too, so they now had to write diagnosis codes on the recipe, and a system was promised that tallied the practice and point out doctors writing too much stuff and to deal with them. (How remained a mystery, obviously.)
As expected, no real results emerged improvement-wise, but eventually the diag codes started to get tied to drugs, so if the doc wanted to prescribe something he had to code in something the system is happy with. Also, restrictions got applied just on what type of doc can prescribe what.

As anyone can imagine, that directly lead to lot of wasted time up front to coding, created a flawed information system on what real illnesses the patients have, and they had to visit several docs just to get whatever they need due to restrictions.
And it kept evolving more and more, turning the docs into kinda robots who are not supposed to think and understand stuff, just push buttons that the system (written by not even doctors) is happy with. If I had MD practice I’d probably dropped it pretty soon saying that if the ministry is so wise, let them write the recipe, I’m only in the way knowing better.
In other places you also have insurers and lawyers to cope with, that leads to enormous waste in unneeded diagnostics just to cover ass if someone decides to sue (after probably not following any of the recommended practice to heal).

On the other track university caught up replacing most science with some modern BS and lowering the standards to pass the bar.

My only advice to people is to not get sick and avoid the system as much as possible. Unfortunately not sure how to do that unless you have the training yourself or someone close to you. Maybe there are some areas still with the old kind of doctors.

I’ve had to have a few major surgeries in my life, but I avoid hospitals like the plague.
I don’t take any medications. I won’t get vax’s, especially the new one.
I have been rarely sick since leaving the military where we had to get flu shots every year and other “exotic” vax’s if we went anyplace “special”.
Many years ago I stopped eating “pre-fab” foods containing artificial flavors, colors, corn syrup, GMO’s, hydrogenated oils, etc.
The food industry puts some type of sugar into almost all the processed foods. Hence the diabetic increase and craving for sweets, carbs.
I don’t drink tap water (flouride) and use a filtered bottle. I don’t buy “drinking water” in plastic bottles because it just came from some municipal water system anyway.
Spring, distilled, or RO water for me.
So, like your advice, I try and stay healthy and won’t go to a doctor unless something bad has happened.
I had a good friend that was a hospital administrator and would tell me about the coding system, prescriptions, etc.
Thanks for letting me know how much worse it is than I suspected. After this rona debacle I’ve lost ALL respect for the medical community.

I go in to see my doctor every 6 months to check my kidney function. I could decide that that is too much trouble, except it isn’t. I like my doctor. We get along, and those visits are pleasant social opportunities.

Everyone has a different belief about their healthcare and what is important.
I was merely stating what mine are based on my experiences.
You do you.

I did.

I think it is irrational to vilify the entire medical and pharmaceutical professions.

We have medications because there is a need. We have educated, trained medical professionals because there is a need. The antivax cult is so bad that it has spread to pet owners. I’ve seen puppies die from distemper and parvo. My dogs/pets are, and will always be, vaccinated for every disease that there is a vaccination for and is indicated for my area. Compare the cost of prevention to the cost of treatment. The latter is steep in more ways than money.

This is me stating my informed, educated, career experience based point of view.

Like I said, you do you.
But I don’t think my own experiences/beliefs should be called “irrational” by you.
So many never ask WHY so many more people are sick, WHY so many children are on meds, WHY people have to be on meds for so long, WHY pharmaceutical companies were legally given immunity for any negative affects of their vax’s, etc. by our own lawmakers.
You seem to not respect differing experiences or beliefs of others and how they choose to live life.
Instead throw out caustic words. My post was my informed, educated, career experience as well.

Now thinking of it, most of the veterinary field was fortunate enough to not clash with politics… (Okay, not counting the mandatory reporting of epidemics where they clash.)

Above, not the profession of medicine was villified but its ruining by the external factors.

Just one blatant example: if your dog has some cancer and you find a willing vet for a new experimental therapy, you can just agree and engage.
However if YOU have a cancer all kinds of regulations prevent the doc to take on the procedure. Even if everyone, including the regulation maker agrees that just going by you will die a horrible death in 3 month period, and having all sanity prefer dying sooner if so happens.

It’s reassuring to know that I’m not the only person who tries to stay out of hospitals (I’ve never been admitted to one, for ANYTHING) and that my minimalist approach to health care is not unique. Although my aforementioned doctor seems to be on the same page, I think he gets a bit annoyed with me for never having a flu shot and taking my sweet time about some other tests that are, shall we say, “appropriate” for my age group.

Some people simply don’t understand what has been done to our military over the years medically.
They don’t see how the FDA shuts down herbs, vitamins, and even fresh milk and farmers markets.
Are they aware that our lawmakers gave pharm companies immunity from lawsuits over vaccinations?
I know we here probably do, but many people have no clue.
My VA doc suggested a drug to help me stop smoking. I told her I didn’t want it. One of the side effects was “seizures”. My younger brother had died of a seizure.
2 weeks later the prescription shows up in my mailbox.
I can only imagine how much $$ the crooked politicians get in kickbacks from the pharm companies for all the prescriptions the VA medical system gives out.
I’ve worked in that system and worked with veterans who had multiple physical and/or mental disabilities. The amount of drugs they push from there is appalling, while denying the efficacy of holistic/preventative approaches.
As far as the tests suggested for my age group, I didn’t see the logic in subjecting my healthy body to radiation and dyes with God knows what in them every other year.
I don’t care what others choose to do as is their right, only wish people knew some truths so their decisions would be informed ones.
Sorry for the rant, it pains me to see what goes on in life some days.

Yes, I get it, especially with respect to the drugs. It reminds me of years ago when I’d drive my parents to their various doctors’ offices; I’d sit out in the waiting room, watching all these well-dressed guys in business suits and brief cases going in. One day I commented to the receptionist who I had gotten to know, “Gosh, Dr. xxxx has an awful lot of patients who are business people and professional types”. She looked at me like I was an idiot and goes “Those aren’t patients, those are the reps from the drug companies. The briefcases are full of samples”. Oh…that’s why my parents always went home with a handfull of meds, many of which they had to discontinue after a few days because of the side effects. So many $$ and so much waste!

Yep, exactly.
Comedian Chris Rock once commented that “they” don’t cure sh*t anymore and are “drug dealers” ’cause the money is in the medicine, not the cure.
Do we really believe the most brilliant scientists in the world haven’t been able to find a cure for cancer for 60 some odd years?
Jerry Lewis used to do a telethon every year to raise money for Muscular Dystrophy. Did they ever find a cure for that?
We’ve had Susan G. Kommen “race for the cure” for cancer for a while now. Any cure? Spent all that money on research for years and the best minds are “stumped”?
Really?

There have been, and still are, disorders and diseases that can be treated with medication. People suffering from those disorders and diseases wanted something–even medication–that would treat their maladies. So, those who do this, AKA pharmaceutical companies invested the effort and expense in developing medications that can treat disorders and diseases for which there was no effective treatment before. Example, chemotherapy agents for cancer, anti-inflammatories for autoimmune diseases and chronic pain, antibiotics for infections, antipsychotics for schizophrenia and bipolar, diuretics for congestive heart failure and kidney failure, insulin for diabetes, this is why there is an uptick in medication prescription and use, because there are more medications available to treat more illnesses. The patient can always refuse a prescription and can always choose not to take it. Most people suffering from some chronic disorder or disease want relief and welcome something as easy as a pill or injection.

Unless a person is intellectually incompetent, it is still their responsibility to do the research on their illnesses, study treatment options, side effects, and make the choice to take the treatment or not. If you don’t participate in your treatment then a doctor has little choice than to give you what is available because doing nothing is usually frowned upon.

Ah, yes…the legal profession. The guys whose pictures are all over billboards, with an easy-to-remember phone # in case you feel like suing someone. I realized a long time ago that they are part of the reason for the defensive medicine that’s being practiced, and all the dubious tests and medications that are being prescribed.

Steve, you lost me when you said you want the “vaccine” (gene therapy) In this segment you admitted that this is a contagious virus and you either get immunity by having it or getting the injection. We are over a year into this “highly contagious virus” and unless you never left your home you have 3 possible outcomes. You are naïve to think you have not been exposed! 1) You already had the virus and had no symptoms. 2) You ended up with some sniffles or a cough for a week (weak symptoms) or 3) You had the flu with all the misery of aches, pains, fever and not enjoying the botanicals of a distilled beverage. Why anyone would take a non-tested, non-FDA approved experimental therapy is beyond reason. Yes folks, it is FDA approved for emergency purposes only! Read the dang paper you sign for this stuff. You waive all legal action if it causes you harm, you agree that it is experimental. My gosh! I for one am not taking this poison. Healthy lifestyle to the nth degree and still enjoying Bombay Sapphire in its blue bottle glory! Haven’t had cold or flu in last 37 years. Yes some people have co-morbidities, but why is that different than any other flu. Damn, how come there are low to zero cases of other flu this past season? Covid cured cancer and heart disease! Deaths from these are at all time lows. Look up the numbers, it is out there!

So much truth in your comments (which, he he, mirror my comments) I 100% agree.

Quote excerpt from Joe American: “Why anyone would take a non-tested, non-FDA approved experimental therapy is beyond reason. Yes folks, it is FDA approved for emergency purposes only! Read the dang paper you sign for this stuff.”

Where are you getting this information that the vaccine is untested, not FDA approved, experimental, for emergency purposes only, and what paper would that be, and have you read it despite not getting the vaccine?

Let’s not muddy the waters. The “mRNA” vaccines are clearly experimental, as in this is their first RL application on human subjects.
They also got special form of approval bypassing the usual req for having data on long-term effects (meaning 3, 5, 10 years). Those obviously won’t emerge before that amount of time is behind us.
On top of that we can see massive censorship on any science or practice that goes against the dogmas pushed by Fauci&co at the moment. What is the very opposite we would expect for the case everything is alright and claims matching the reality.
The norm would be that hazards info like https://www.bulatlat.com/2020/08/21/hazards-of-the-covid-19-vaccine/ is widely discussed and all points explained for why thy don’t apply or the risk is worth taking. Instead the public is just lied to saying it’s all fine and all bases are covered, trust us, one mask good, two masks better.

My governor expired the mask mandate a few weeks ago. I have been shopping, etc since then and don’t even carry the mask on me yet the landscape of faces looks pretty much the same with 90% still wearing them. No one has confronted me for being bare faced.

If someone confronts you about a mask, ask them how they got there. If they drove their car, they put themselves and many more people at much greater risk than non-symptomatic you without a mask.

We both know that fear porn mask heroes would just ignore my point. They are emotional and not in thinking mode. So a better response would be ridicule or a hard, silent stare while holding my ground. I can be assertive too.

I had to go out yesterday and visit many more businesses than is usual (car repair et al) and the masking is dropping off. The number not wearing one, and the businesses not requiring one are noticeably fewer. What I especially took notice of is the receptionist where I get my car worked on was not wearing a mask, no one else in the shop was either, and they don’t have the sign on the entrance. This impressed me because the receptionist had a kidney transplant less than a year ago.

After everything we’ve seen and endured with this faux pandemic it’s naive to believe that these unlawful restrictions will be lifted. I just don’t think the payoff of claiming credit by the Asterisk’s administration for ending the pandemic will be satisfying enough for the overlords. They aren’t finished with us, yet. Nope. Unless you submit to vaccination you will be branded a scourge against humanity and possibly jailed for it. I see even greater impositions against our privacy, which have pretty much already been stripped bare. Proof of vaccination in order to participate in society at any level is the next insult to our liberty.

I will not be vaccinated against a flu that I have a 99.999% chance of either not getting or if I do most certainly surviving, with a vaccine of questionable safety. If the vaccine can be brought forth in a fraction of the time it normally takes to get approved for mass dissemination, that begs the question of why the standard FDA practice has held back life saving drugs, sometimes for years, while people suffer and die, because safety. Either that was never necessary or more likely, because the pharmaceutical companies were given immunity (no pun intended) against any threat of blowback if this vaccine causes death, permanent health problems or a myriad of other negative consequences. They stand to lose nothing and gain massive profits.

Personally, I wouldn’t take medicine of any kind that I don’t need. Whether that is why I am a healthy woman in the so-called vulnerable age group who has not practiced one single mandate against my 1st amendment right, and don’t have a colorful array of pills lined up on my kitchen counter to swallow every morning and night I can’t say for sure. I’m fortunate to be healthy but I also take responsibility for my health. As far as I’m concerned doctors are good enough to fix a broken bone or some other structural problem, but otherwise I stay away from them.

What we once considered normal will never return.

P.S. I love the cow

I don’t share SIster Babe’s optimism of things returning to normal soon. The Kung Flu fueled too Laboratories for Tyrrany all over America, and there are too many people with influence who have been enjoying the pandemic way too much

Good morning, gentlemen.

Funny how herd immunity was acquired just after Biden’s masters stole the election. Also funny that the mask will rule the lives of the left, just as governors Gruesome and Witless wish.

I live in Texas, out of any damned city. We decided to quit wearing masks for shopping on the 1st, preempting Governor Abbott by a week. We are still free. For the moment, at least.

Damn, Bill! That must be how I made it through the year! Black rum for breakfast, beer for lunch, because cereal, and I forget what we have for dinner…

I am in VA with Gov Jolson. In Kroger on Sunday, I removed my mask and it was exhilarating. Then a funny thing happened. I noticed many more people without them then last weekend. And no one looked at me funny. In fact, and I know this is weird, people without masks smiled at each other; and you could tell! And the people shall lead.

Must be nice not living in The People’s Republic of Arlington. It’s f***ed up how many people here seem to genuinely enjoy living with only three states of mind: angry, fearful, and judgemental

Yea, we are down in the SW part of the state. Most people are much more relaxed here, but still lots of people in their cars, by themselves, with masks on.

Yeah, that driving alone without a mask thing is at epidemic levels up here too. Science!

It’s ok, saved them the hassle of putting a Biden/Harris bumper sticker on the car.

Saw my first one with 2 masks on a couple days ago.
Ever want to scream “For the love of God!”? ha ha

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