Categories
Right Angle

How Far Must Cops Go to Rescue a Drowning Man Who Jumps in a Lake to Escape from Them?

To protect and serve? Sean Bickings jumped in Tempe Town Lake and started to swim away from police. The headlines say cops did nothing but watch him drown. 

How Far Must Cops Go to Rescue a Drowning Man Who Jumps in a Lake to Escape from Them?

Is law enforcement obligated to go beyond their training, and official protocol, to risk their own lives in an effort to save a person who’s attempting to flee? Thirty-four year old Sean Bickings, a homeless man, tried to get away from police in Arizona who responded to a potential domestic violence incident involving Bickings. When cops said they would check his outstanding warrants, Bickings jumped in Tempe Town Lake and started to swim away. Shortly afterward, city officials say, he told police he was “in distress” and he drowned. The headlines say cops did nothing but watch him die.

Scott Ott, Stephen Green and Bill Whittle create 260 new episodes each year with the encouragement and funding of our Members. For as little as $9.95/month, you can join this cadre of committed conservative patriots who run their own blog and forums. We think Membership is worth it just to meet them, but our Members say they give so that thousands of others can hear a message they don’t get elsewhere. Give it a try for 30 days, and if you don’t love your new friends, we’ll issue a rapid and cheerful refund. Just click the big green button above.

Listen to the Audio Version

30 replies on “How Far Must Cops Go to Rescue a Drowning Man Who Jumps in a Lake to Escape from Them?”

I’m reminded of a quote from long ago that applies to the criminal who was evading the police. “You knew the job was dangerous when you took it, Fred.” Your illegal and stupid antics do not encumber anybody else with the responsibility of very probably dying on your behalf.

There is also the question of whether the police can secure all their gear from theft while doing the rescue. That happened where I am. A police officer removed his belt to extract someone from a narrow storm drain. The stranded youth fled out the far end of the pipe and the police officer came back out to find his belt, gun and all, gone. There are cases where police have gone to rescue some one and he has pulled a knife and stabbed them. Both possibilities may be in their training.

Yes, I always hope that the cops will do all they can “to protect and to serve.”

But with that said, the Supreme Court has already ruled on more than one occasion that the police have no duty to protect the citizens.
So if they have no duty to protect the victims of crime, why would you expect them to have a duty to expect the perpetrators?

Bill, you and I grew up on the ocean and could swim before we could walk. And my natural reaction is the same as yours. No way in hell I’m going to watch a person drown if I have anyway around it. But I my my wife is from an area you know well, N. Idaho, and she has three very strong and brave brothers who, would probably respond as we would, would do so at their peril.

Bill, I couldn’t agree more. Though it might take a minute (or 2) to remove all his kit, and his shoes, during which time the guy may still drown, the cops are obligated to make the effort to save a drowning man, regardless of his crime. Further, saving a drowning person takes a lot of personal risk, unless you are trained to deal with their panic. The cops should be shamed for their response, as well as the useless bystander/cowards who did nothing, whose motto is “defund the police unless you need them.”

First of all, this was an emergency. In that context, each individual has to decide for himself or herself what to do. Ordinary rules or morality that might apply generally to all of us in daily life simply do not apply. I disagree virulently with BW. If he wants to risk his life to save someone who is drowning, that’s his choice regarding his own life. But to say that because LEOs have chosen that profession that they are required to risk their lives in an emergency regardless of the particulars of the situation and their own values is to me dangerous nonsense. They retain their choice about their individual lives. Anything else including BW’s unbelievably wrong position is utterly false.

This is a moral dilemma to some people, to some of us it’s quite clear. It’s a matter of just desserts as far as I’m concerned.

If you stand on a railroad track immediately in front of a speeding train, on purpose and by your own volition, I will not jump in front of that speeding train trying to save you. If there’s time before the speeding train arrives I might stand to one side and ask you WTF you think you’re doing and try to talk you out of it. I will not save you from your own, willful, asinine stupidity. Trying to remove your dumbass from immediate proximity of the cow catcher on a speeding train at risk to my own life isn’t heroic. It’s stupid. Hopefully you will not have passed your genes along to any unfortunate offspring and have well and truly Darwinized yourself.

That said …

If you’re a kid who was walking down an otherwise empty train track and somehow stupidly got your foot caught in some manner while now a speeding train is heading your way — I will do everything I can to get you out of that mortal peril and I will stay with you trying to free you right up to the moment of impact. One of us is going to die anyway and I don’t think I could live with myself if I abandoned an innocent, deserving child to be splattered all over the front of a diesel locomotive.

See the difference? See how that would relate to the situation in Uvalde Texas? No? Well then you may be, like Bill, a better man than me and I’m fine with that.

Like Bill said, I’ve come upon accidents and been in other scenarios where it was a risk to my life and limb to try to help someone. I have done everything I could, taken on any risk that was called for, to come to the aid of those in peril. I will continue doing that until the end of my life, natural or otherwise. This is not that sort of thing.

I’m a pretty good swimmer. I know how to fight on land, sea and in the air and I haven’t forgotten any of that. If you leave me no other options I’ll hurt you really bad in any of those mediums even if it’s to save your life. I’m also old and out of shape and if I can’t reach you with a branch or a rope because you intentionally swam out of my reach, trying to avoid my reach, and stupidly drown yourself — That’s on you not me. Say “Hi” to Saint Peter for me and tell him I’ll be along by and by.

It’s never a good idea to swim out further than you can swim back. If you don’t know that, then you don’t know enough not to stand on a railroad track in front of an oncoming speeding train either. That’s not lack of information, it’s not ignorant, it’s stupidity. You can cure ignorance with knowledge, stupidity is often fatal one way or another. That’s the order of the universe.

It’s not always wise to preclude someone from getting what they deserve. It is almost never wise to take upon yourself what someone else has fully earned in the way of just desserts.

With the proviso that I’m basing my stance on the information available and that there may be other information I’m not aware of that could alter my opinion —

In this story the innocent party who is faultless is the cop. If he was on his radio calling for backup and a rescue squad the moment that it became clear this nincompoop was in trouble then he did the right thing, and he did all he should do. Up until that moment he didn’t know that this ninny wasn’t capable of swimming across the lake, or staying in the middle of it for hours safely. There are certainly people like that, I’m one of them or I was in my younger days.

So right up until the second it became clear this idiot was in distress and mortal peril the cop wasn’t executing a rescue, he was in pursuit to make an arrest. Or not. At his option in regards to his own safety and the safety of the general public. The dumb git in question fled an officer in the performance of his duties and he CHOSE something more dangerous and immediately deadly than arrest and incarceration.

Choices have consequences.

Under those circumstances, and in this case the circumstances are vital to the decision making process, I would not have attempted to swim out to that POS and save his ass either. He brought it on himself, he made decisions that lead to his demise. His decisions were immoral and unlawful and could by any reasonable person be expected to lead to the likelihood of death.

I would not deprive my wife (if still married) and kids of a father, nor my parents (if still alive) of a son nor my sister her big brother over that guy. There are many more years in this situation that cop’s people will need him and there’s no telling how dire that need may become. To die under unavoidable circumstances saving the deserving is honorable, noble and for a decent human being could become unavoidable. This is what military combat operatives do on a daily basis.

To die trying to save someone who has thrown his life away at the moment of culmination of a lifetime of bad choices is futility. Futility in this case is stupidity compounding stupidity.

I have no more sympathy for that idiot than I would for an enemy combatant shredded by an artillery round. If your choices lead you to a time and place where my arty takes you out, or you drown as a result of your own equally bad choices …

That’s just too bad for you. You brought this on yourself all by yourself. Better you than me.

1) I too had similar life saving training many decades ago as an adolescent (if my memory is not failing me too badly), with the “get behind, arm across chest, etc.” approach. Never had an occasion to use that “training”. The grabbing of of the armpit muscle to calm them down is new to me, however.

2) which led me to wonder as I was listening to Bill (and already having read the first comment by Keith about the risks of being a life guard/saver) if having a shirt or short piece of rope with you to throw at the victim would give them something to grab unto while you then pulled on the rope and them back to safety (granting they would be trying to get to you along the rope while this is happening). Anyone have thoughts (or actual experience) about the merits and limits of this idea? [assumes throwing a rope from shore is not viable].

3) on the mania for people to use their phones to video these events: I suspect it is actually a good thing for someone to be videoing these things, if a valid rescue effort is already being mounted or attempted by others on scene. The video helps protect the rescuers, and possibly the police, from false charges of whatever, and may help the victim or their family to understand what their relative did or failed to do that led to his/her problems, death, injury, or whatever. Better than having solely verbal testimony after the facts.

A quick look at Google Earth appears to show a dam very near where I believe the gentleman entered the water. I’ve never been to Tempe, so I couldn’t say for sure. But one or two people in the video stated there was no swimming allowed in the lake. This may have been a very serious mitigating circumstance that was intentionally left out by “news” agencies to feed the anti-police mob.

Bill is certainly right an
about his “good samaritan” attitude towards saving lives. I bet those LEO’s were of the same frame of mind. I also bet they studied the situation and found they could not get rid of their equipment (fully loaded “sam browne”, vest, shirt, boots and (maybe pants), soon enough to be of any help. It’s one if those times where you are “dammed if you do” and “dammed if you don’t” and only God knows the right answer.

I want to echo Bill’s comment about people filming rather than getting involved. What comes to mind is the recent woman on the NY subway when the crazy man grabbed her by the hair and she was begging people to help her. One, two, three, or all of the men in that car should have stood up for that woman and been willing to take that jerk down.
Unfortunately, even if you detained him for assault, in NYC he’d probably be out the next day, but you still can’t let that stand.

I recall that video as well. There was a mountain of a man standing just across from them. He could have squashed the aggressor and just kept looking at his phone. Anyone remember Bernie Goetz? There will be a lot more like him if this keeps up.

Maybe the cops aren’t obliged to jup in the lake, but they sure as s*** are obligated to put more effort into taking down an active shooter than they do into stopping parents who want to rescue their kids

It’s the stopping others from intervening that should open them all up to criminal charges.

Lol … When I was in the Marines a man in my immediate chain of command got ticked off at me and said “Get the F— out of my sight! I never want to see your hideous pie hole again!”

So I went and jumped in that same lake.

Until the MPs came and politely instructed me that the order had been rescinded and probably wasn’t really a lawful order anyway. I didn’t get in any trouble, I didn’t go very far and I made sure that I could be found but the only way to obey that “order” was to do what I did and unass the AO. (“Unass the AO” or Area of Operations means the same as “Get the hell out of Dodge”.)

There’s a fine line between the advantageous interpretation of an order and a lame excuse for being AWOL and I knew I was walking it. Mostly I was just being a smartass because I knew I could.

Say “Hi” to Sister Babe for me and remind her to be careful what she wishes for. The guy who gave me that “order” never, ever gave a similar command again. Gotta think he learned from that situation and I got to spend some extra time in a local bar. All’s well that ends well.

I will echo your (and Keith’s) disgust for all the videographers. Watched one last night with my wife of multiple people watching one guy pull another off the third rail.
The good Samaritan is lucky to be alive; his ignorance of the 3rd rail kept him from having the appropriate amount of respect for the V & I involved.
There are protocols to follow. Living in an area with many creeks that flood, more people die trying to save others than those who are in danger.
PD is not well trained in water rescue, that is an FD job. It’s usually a specialized group within PD, at least for swift water rescue.
I suspect the officers made a call that would have been different had it been a child or dog.
However, there is one aspect of Bill’s response that I want to highlight as I think it is a very conservative mindset: Situational Awareness and forethought. Bill mentioned going out on the pier and seeing kids lean over and make an assessment before a problem arises. I find this mentality to be absent in socialists, as they rely on someone else to do that type of thinking. Conservatives are individually responsible.
Our downtown area is relatively safe. That being said, there are enough homeless to give one pause. When we go down, I am already mentally prepared for both the passive and aggressive homeless and panhandlers. My wife has her mace concealed in her palm. I have pre-decided to avoid and retreat absent a visible weapon from the subject. But we are fully aware of our situation before we get there.
An acquaintance was accosted some time back and decided to have a conversation with an agitated individual, who shoved him when he didn’t give money and cracked his skull on the wall. He later said he never thought someone looking for a handout could get violent that quickly. WHAT?
I tend to believe that had that event happened elsewhere, like Iowa (reference to Backstage discussion) the number of people videoing would have been at least one less, the one swimming out to assist. There are just not enough Bill Whittle’s in CA.

Bravo, Ron. You’re completely on point with the disgust about the morons whose first reaction is to pull out a cell phone and start a video. Those people are completely devoid of any sort of sense of duty to the community and it’s reprehensible. Like Bill, I’ve been in at least a couple of situations where I’ve helped others in need, and I did so without really thinking about documenting it. Somebody needs help? HELP THEM! And your comment about situational awareness is also steel on target. Pay attention to your surroundings and you just might live another day. Far too many have their noses stuck in a cell phone or device of some kind and they wonder what happened when they walk into a street sign or fall down a manhole.

Answer: Law enforcement. The “protection” is implicitly achieved when criminals are removed from the public sphere. If people are expecting babysitters to protect them from their idiocy, then their expectations are misplaced.
‘Nuff said.

Bill, God bless you, we all know that you would go after the drowning dog, etc. Heroes do things like that and you are one of my personal heroes since your days on PJTV, especially when you and Klavan clarified issues of the day. And we share disgust at people more concerned with videoing the episode than helping out.
What we don’t share is such apparent lack of fear when attempting to save a grown man drowning. You are taking a huge risk. A fully clothed, weighted down, drowning man will attempt to climb your body to get out of the water. As an experienced lifeguard and someone who actually made US Nationals in swimming and is your size (yes, I shook your hand after a talk in Marietta, GA, and I’d guess you are a fit 6’1″), I would be scared as crap and have second thoughts. And I would have to strip down to my skivvies because swimming with clothes is not the same as a SPEEDO. We cannot assume that the police on the scene share our comfort level in the water and have anything close to a knowledge of what to do. (The chance of “coming up from behind, surprising the victim” is silly. In the best case scenario of a frantic, desperate drowning victim you grab his reaching hand, spin him around, do the across chest hold, and do your best. You may even have to punch him, although I think that is silly to rely on, too.). If I was one of these officers and get reprimanded, I’d challenge the accusers to an attempt to rescue me, fully clothed and acting frantic.

Well stated, sir! The risks associated with rescuing a drowning person are often unknown or ignored when these sort of conversations occur. I’m only 5’6″ and ~160 lbs, and I am pretty sure I could take an unprepared, well-intentioned rescuer with me as I sink to the bottom.

Agreed, the police aren’t necessarily responsible for saving you from the idiocy of your own actions, and rescuing a drowning swimmer is challenging under good circumstances. I do not fault the officers. The idiot put himself in harm’s way. Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.

Leave a Reply