Categories
The Virtue Signal

The Virtue Signal: WRATH vs PATIENCE

Bill Whittle and Alfonzo Rachel talk about getting mad, and how each of them deals with getting anger under control.

The Virtue Signal: WRATH vs PATIENCE

Bill Whittle and Alfonzo Rachel talk about getting mad, and how each of them deals with getting anger under control. Join the gang.

Video below hosted at Rumble.

Listen to the Audio Version

51 replies on “The Virtue Signal: WRATH vs PATIENCE”

In watching The Virtue Signal it has become increasingly clear to me how such focus will eventually be key to MB2A (Moving Back to America). Indeed, the problem (and solution) involves Philosophy, and in particular leading a new generation to think about it practically.
————-
Let me briefly digress: I somehow learned that Philosophy in fact has a structure – 5 hierarchical layers – with the foundation being Meta-physics. That layer asks (and answers) the most fundamental questions. It also suggests what can and can’t be answered logically – I.e., ..where the leaps of faith must be made. And, that Meta-physics layer also asks (and answers) questions about what we fundamentally are and what society fundamentally is. (Human beings, incidentally; capable, but not always governed by, Reason.

Building on that, the next Philosophy layer is Epistemology – The study of how to acquire knowledge. The next layer is Ethics, and building on that are Politics and Esthetics. (There’s a fantastic chart that represents this structure graphically. That can be found here: http://www.importanceofphilosophy.com/Chart.html. (It’s no wonder I wasn’t invited to more parties..)
————-
The point I’m suggesting here though is that for us to MB2A, the virtue of Integrity is key. 

In one of Bill’s great MB2A episodes (LAW-ABIDING, https://youtu.be/njyi7zWZKxg), he suggested that there are 2 basic survival strategies – proliferation or collaborative (that of wolves vs. rabbits, Etc). One can logically justify that and individualism and capitalism (collaborative/wolve-strategies) for that matter, via Metaphysics and Epistemology. Moreover, with effort, we can similarly invalidate altruism, collectivism, socialism, communism, racism, fascism, Etc. In other words, with a bit of training and focus, we can identify logical breaks in Integrity, call them Dis-integrations and Mis-integrations. (In fact, there’s a beautiful book that explains how to do this in general, called The DIM Hypothesis: Why the Lights of the West Are Going Out. (https://peikoff.com/books/the-dim-hypothesis/))
I believe we, and more-importantly I believe you guys, Bill & Zo, are on the cusp of not just a Solution, but THE SOLUTION to the challenge of MB2A. 

I only started to really see how though, by adding another key from another of Bill’s great MB2A episodes – The Power of Wanting (https://rumble.com/vdoqpr-the-power-of-wanting.html?mref=6f1ej&mc=aj60t). I.e., That is, we renovators need tools, teachers, trainers, representatives, Etc., that make philosophical Integrity irresistibly MORE-compelling than other mind-less (inhuman) behaviors. (Bill alluded to how Star Trek did that for him. It similarly did it for me – How I wish there was a Star Fleet Academy..)
It’s still very hard for me to articulate all this well, as it’s only just beginning to all make sense. (I’m sure you guys can do way better.. And, this approach even respectfully contextualizes Religion!) Nevertheless, I’m truly seeing light at the end of this god-forsaken tunnel. 
Do any of these observations make sense to any of you-alls?

Random thoughts prompted by this piece:
***
Most people treat the Bible like a software license. They don’t actually read it, they just scroll to the bottom and click “I agree.”
***
“Middle class America is no less violent than any other people. They seem passive because they’re results oriented. They rise not out of blood frenzy but to solve the otherwise insoluble. Their methods of choice are good will, cooperation, forbearance, negotiation and finally, appeasement, roughly in that order. Only when these fail to end the abuse do they revert to blowback. And they do so irretrievably. Once the course is set and the outcome defined, doubt is put aside. The middle class is known, condemned actually, for carrying out violence with the efficiency of an industrial project where bloody destruction at any scale is not only in play, it’s a metric. Remorse is left for the next generation, they’ll have the leisure for it. We’d like to believe this is merely dark speculation. History says it isn’t.”
– Ol’ Remus, The Woodpile Report
***
I can’t remember who told me this many years ago, but I’ve always thought it was funny…
“They say virtue is its own reward, but what they don’t tell you is that it’s its own punishment, too.”
***
One of my father’s favorite saying was from H.G.Wells: “The man who raises a fist is a man who has run out of ideas.” He was trying to teach us to resolve conflicts without resorting to violence, and I won’t say he failed at that, but…
But he also taught me that if you think it through, there’s probably something you can do that’s much more vicious than merely beating someone down.
***
Another saying of my father’s:
“If you’re in too big of a rush to be polite to people, you damn well need to slow down.”
Over the years, I have added to that one: If you think you can’t afford to be generous, you need to rethink your priorities.
***
As with all of them, I consider these things to become “deadly sins” when they become obsessive and all-consuming. I don’t consider it sinful to become angry. “Sinful” happens when your brain turns off.

Most people treat the Bible like a software license. They don’t actually read it, they just scroll to the bottom and click “I agree.”

I’m adding this to my quote collection.

So glad you have Zoe on, hearing some scriptural truths in a different way turned a light on, I thought “wow never heard it said like that”. In particular that Adam and Eve’s disobedience in rejecting the truth God had given them created a liability for the rest of humanity. Also about social justice being more about revenge. You made some good points too Bill, lol

Mr. Whittle’s frustration with knowing where we’re headed reminds me of a time I took a friend’s four year old out for a bike ride. At one point, I stopped her at the top of a very tall hill and said, “You know, it’s going to be really fun to coast down this hill, but the only way home is to climb back up it, and that’s going to be really hard.” When she said she didn’t care, I gave her another chance to consider, warning, “Okay, you understand the climb back up is going to be tough going. You’re really sure?” It was very tempting and she was very determined, so down we went. About halfway back up, as the grade got steeper and she’s growing hotter under her little pink helmet and the peddles and training wheels are bashing into the back of her ankles, with all the indignation that a four year old can muster, she exclaimed, “THIS was NOT my idea!!!!” Cause, meet effect.

I’m rather disappointed. You posted this to BlueTube yesterday, before you posted it here on the website or on Rumble. I just became a Sustaining Member on Thursday, and I thought members get video content before the general public. I, like a growing number of people, are no longer using BlueTube. Which also makes your Right Angle Backstage unwatchable for us, unless we rip it from BlueTube.

Brian, I’m sorry about that. Here’s what happened: when finished, most shows go to our shared cloud drive, and then Scott posts them as soon as he is able. We had some problems with the compressed files Zo uploaded, and so by the time we got that straightened out it was Saturday morning and I came in and edited this one myself. Posting to Rumble is relatively new and I didn’t have the log-in credentials, so since the show was late I uploaded it to YouTube myself. Scott got to it as soon as he could, but that was entirely my responsibility.

All of our content is now being hosted on both Rumble and YouTube; the Backstage show should not be an exception unless Rumble does not have the ability to make a video private. I will discuss this with Scott later today. We remain on YouTube for the foreseeable future because that is where I have gathered 186,000 subscribers over eight years. Also, YouTube pays us every month for ads and I enjoy taking their money.

Yeah…I get that BlueTube has gotten us all by the short and curly’s. And as much as I want Rumble to succeed, it’s a complete mess. I tried to change my email on Rumble from my ministry’s email, to my personal one. Now I get zero notifications from Rumble. I’ve tried to get support, and all I get is crickets.
We really need to all come together and do something about this. I feel kind of guilty for suggesting people go to Rumble now. A lot of well known ministries have come over to Rumble. Reasons for Hope, CMI – Creation Ministries International, etc. etc. That’s not just because I suggested it, but because BlueTube is now coming after regular Christian channels. Carl Kerby of Reasons for Hope said BlueTube is squelching their views for violating some unknown clause. So the persecution of the church is just beginning here in America.
Regarding the Backstage show and BlueTube…I don’t think my views ever get tallied because I use Brave and all the ad blocking I can. It’s the same reason I got rid of my TV over 15 years ago. I’ve never actually seen an ad on BlueTube, other than the ones that the video personality does themselves. And I actually like those ads. Which getting sponsors might be a good way to go. So I probably could watch them without going against my principles, but for now, I just rip the videos and watch them via my TLC player. I feel I should get your approval since it is your ‘intellectual material’ as they call it. I just watch it and delete is, so it’s not like I’m pirating your show to make money. lol I hope you don’t mind. And thanks for bringing my buddy Zo to the show. God bless, and Stay Bold!

Judge not lest yee be judged. A favorite line from the scriptures that is used, or more accurately missused by those seeking abolition from anyone whom has done wrong. This is not meant as a excuse for bad behavior, it is simply a reminder that we all have fallen short. As an example, when that teenage boy comes to take your daughter out on a date, you had best do your due diligence (judgement) on whether he is acceptable. The scriptures also teach not to throw pearls before swine. The message is, we are not expected to be a doormat to those who wish us harm, but to try and forgive those whom have harmed us.

What is this forgiveness being proposed? What is the nature of it? What is the purpose of it?

I prefer “Judge and be prepared to be judged.”

It’s not possible to survive without judgment.

From a Biblical perspective, imagine what God would have done to man if Jesus had not asked him to forgive us our sins. If you thought the flood was bad, just wait until the Earth is engulfed in fire. Ouch!

Jesus is god, 1/3 of the triune, so if Jesus talks to god [I assume you mean the father] then aren’t they just talking to themselves/itself? And why would one aspect have to convince the other aspect of something?

God is love unless you are naughty then god will rain unimaginable suffering upon you. For eternity. Of what need has this god to inflict almighty suffering on beings it creates, is purported to know and love when it can just not give the ingrates and violators an after death existence at all? Eliminate them. Erase them. Why subject them to torture instead? Don’t we arrest and imprison parents who torture and isolate their children under horrific conditions for having broken some rule? Doesn’t that make us humans more humane and loving than this god? And if we are, as claimed, in its image then why can’t it see this?

First, how humanistic your view is… And I say this LIGHTLY!
Imagine an Ant trying to interpret the actions of the Ant Farmer?
In all honesty, I see no problem with Jesus coming to earth and at the same time, being “of God” while here, and actually “God” while there. And that conversation… MAYBE it’s a God (Omnipotent and Omniscience) shoved into Human form, to be an example to us, to lead the way, show us the path. A path Jesus probably negotiated out from the heavens with “God” or himself, or like Q (Star Trek), where they are all Q, they are all God.
And maybe Jesus was trying to communicate something he could only communicate as a limited being… “Father, please forgive them. They have not OUR abilities or insights, and struggle to get through life. They are fragile, and need to seek food and shelter… They don’t always make great decisions, and are at the whim of the biochemistry that keeps them alive… Take me… And punish them no further for being who they are, if they truly found your path/message!”
I stopped believing in the bible in 5th grade when I read The Book of Job.
Using logic like yours, I simply realized that God new the outcome before the bet was placed, and therefore Job did NOT need to suffer like that. What a “bad” God.

As an Adult, I now use a phrase “What if Job Knew?” [And he chose to be born Job, knowing all the pain and suffering, and feeling he was up to the challenge?]
My meaning here is simple enough. What if God lives inside of us, is part of us, because we are all part of God?
And that infliction of suffering in the “After Life”, is honestly the “beating ourselves up” and being harrassed by the others for our bad choices…
I believe this life is a practice run (one of many), we must go through to learn how to behave when we are given Omnipotent and Omniscient powers… Because you don’t want those in the hands of small people with big vices… But good people who have learned virtue.
But that’s just me… I could be all wet.

You don’t have to read up to Job. Very close to the beginning we have that story when the Jews were to leave Egypt and Moses was asking the pharaoh to leave — and a few strikes in all he wanted was to get rid of that rubble — but god wanted to demonstrate the 10 disasters so sent M pleading while hardening P’s heart to say no.

First establish that this god/Jesus/holy spirit is not a myth. Not a human construct created to fill some undeveloped psychological need. Ants exist. Ant farmers exist. Ants don’t create religion surrounding the ant farmer and think it god. The ant farmer doesn’t tell the ants it is and threatens to put the farm out into the noonday sun to punish them for not loving him.

If I could try to explain. We have to consider the nature of God. God is perfect in love and character and sinless but He is not a tyrant. He gave us free will to obey or disobey His one rule in the garden of eden. Since God in His very nature and character is perfect in love and sinless He cannot have sinfulness in heaven and He has to exact judgement on sinful behavior because He cannot go against His very nature. But He is perfect in love in that He sent His son to take the judgement for us that if we believe in Him we would have everlasting life, His original intent in creating us to have relationship with us. And now when we are in Christ when God sees us He does not see our sin any more but the blood of His son Jesus Christ and He is able to fellowship with us because we are no longer an enemy to Him.

Not a tyrant? Didn’t drown an entire planet of humans and innocents because it was peeved [according to the myth for which there is zero evidence]. Didn’t create a place called hell where those who don’t love it enough–people like me–will be put to suffer the extreme suffering for all eternity?

This Judeao-Christian-Islamic god is a sociopathic, abusive, controlling asshole. At least Kali Ma doesn’t pretend to be something she isn’t.

One needn’t even read far into the bible to see the total absurdity of it. It can only be taken as myth.

I like Ms. Carano’s response when the nazi-fied SJWs fired her. She went right out and set up her own project, a movie she’ll make with the Daily Wire. (Film biz friends of mine tell me the brain dead bosses at The Mandalorian were shocked at the blow back they got from firing her. They’re typical SJWs, cushioned aginst the consequences of their own stupidity by fat pay checks and by conscious choice, totally oblivious to facts and reality.)
For me, the point is that while the Democrats certainly deserve our anger and contempt, as far as I am concerned, it’s time to get busy with our own work, our lives, our futures, and let the Democrats go to hell. And yes, I’m sure they’ll try to take us with them with legislation/executive orders which will be simultaneously stupid, stomach turning, viicious, and destructive. But you have to focus on what you can do and then do it.

So. we are to forgive the democrats?
Isn’t reckoning contradictory to forgiveness?
Do nothing yourself, leave it to a god that is omniscient and knows what choices every person will make? Whorship me or I will make you suffer says your god.

When you say “says your god,” to which god do you refer?
On a side note, you repeatedly type “whorship” where the context implies the word worship. Sincere question: exactly where are you going with that?

Hey, thanks for answering. I understood your misspelling of the word, but I don’t understand your meaning by doing so. I’m not interested in challenging you, merely curious about your point of view, if you’re willing to explain it.

The god of the bible demands love or it punishes you. So complying with that demand is whoring yourself to an abusive, cruel, sociopathic control freak.

In Romans 12 the Apostle Paul says not to repay evil with evil and to leave vengeance to the Lord. Remember that Paul was once Saul, a SJW of the first order, who persecuted Jews for the heresy of believing Jesus was the Messiah. Once confronted by the voice of Jesus in the form of a bright light or fire surrounding him, he changed and became Paul. He used his past experience to council others not to take the path he had originally chosen. You might say he spent the rest of his life doing penitence for the wrongs he had inflicted on others. Forgiving our enemies is very difficult, but forgiveness does not mean we should forget what they did. Quite the contrary, we should always strive to remember the evil that men do so that we do not make these same mistakes ourselves.
When WWI ended, the victors punished the German people, which led to a collective seething hatred and the rise Adolf Hitler, who promised them their revenge. After WWII ended we showed much wiser judgment. We punished many of the leaders who inflicted the mass suffering upon the world, but we did not destroy the people or countries of Japan or Germany. We rebuilt them, protected them, and showed them a better way of life. We led by example, which allowed them to become a better people on their own.

Paul also preached that women not be allowed to teach. Do you tell the women in your life to STHU?

It became a national sport to pick sentences from Paul’s letters (written to help specific communities dealing with their actual IRL problems) and use them either to support some insane generalization or to bash Paul depending which narrative is required.

BTW, Gallstones; If you really study the Greek text you will find that Paul does not say that women should not teach but that they should not be in positions of authority over the men. Remember it was the first century of the church and there were many trained Jews who were being converted to the teachings of Christ through the ministry of a Jewish scholar (Paul).

This. And another aspect often forgotten in the context. The forgiveness comes AFTER the enemy left the evil and evildoing behind. Not before. It is not a tool to grant free pass to continue exploiting others. So it does not apply to dems currently — or in any future on the current horizon.

Meanwhile vengeance is yet another thing, it is forbidden for the simple reason it does not work, really. It only creates the illusion of feeling good. And takes resources from relevant actions that would actually improve the situation.
Why you would even think about it connected to dems? The problem is they have power. That is a real problem to tackle. Strip them of the power — and they will feel more miserable than you could inflict on them chasing vengeance.

Huge Point!
Survival, and Freedom are the primary requirements. If we can’t have them, then I believe there is a lot of room w/in Christianity to FIGHT!

What is righteous anger? How does it differ from garden variety “I have been betrayed and injured” anger?

From reading your posts, I figure you do have a Bible. Paul said in Ephesians 4:26, to be angry and sin not. James 1:20 says the “wrath of man does not produce the righteousness of GOD. Righteous anger is when we get angry at the same things that GOD gets angry at like misusing his word to defend our opinions or innocent babies in the womb being killed by the millions.

I don’t want quotes from a bible. I want real people to share their actual ideas.

To me the bible, and every other religious text, are collections of myth. They have no authoritative weight.

So if I have an idea that innocent, unborn lives should be protected from extermination; based on the commandment “Thou Shalt Not Kill” then it carries no weight of authority to you???

I don’t base my morality on religion or any kind of authority and I agree with you on killing people in the womb. Morality shouldn’t (and, properly, doesn’t) come from authority.

Ask: Is it moral because “God” commands it is or is does he command it because it’s moral?

If the former, he could command anything, any horrific atrocity, and it would be the moral thing to do, making him a monster unworthy of worship or, at best, an unpredictable dictator who leaves us wondering day to day whether or not anything we do is ever right. If the latter, it’s moral whether or not he says so, so what do we need him for?

If you do not base “your morality” on any authority, then what is the foundation of your morality?

I don’t think anger is always a sin. It is a base emotion that can easily be abused, which would be sinful. The same can be said of love. How many evils have been done in the name of love? But love itself is not evil.

One can be angry. Even Jesus overturned the money changers tables at the Temple. How one responds to anger is the key. Do you forgive he who angered you; or do you take revenge in a wrathful manner?

The mentors are split on this one.

The Yoda school teaches anger opens the door for the dark side.
Terry Goodkind paints anger as the only counter to the pain inflicted by using the Sword of Truth.

And they are both right, just like in the serenity prayer we need wisdom to tell which case is which as we go.

These conversations with Zo are really valuable, I think. I’m getting more out of them than I thought I would — these are things I’ve thought about a lot, yet I’m getting new perspectives from this.

Yeah, I’ve missed Zo and I’m glad Bill & Co found a way to bring him onboard. I’ve always appreciated his pragmatic, down-to-earth views. Zo does a great job of not only covering theory but also practice; providing actionable, practical information.
I can’t wait to see what these two get into once they finish the 7 virtue/sins thing.

Leave a Reply