The Left suddenly has an interest in Jesus if he can be recruited to endorse Socialism. But was the Christ really the prototypical Socialist? Why does the Left love Jesus right up to the moment he says, “I am the way, the truth and the life, and no one comes to the Father except through me”?
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22 replies on “Was Jesus a Socialist? Why the Left Loves Christ as a Poster Child, Until He Says…”
Bill. You said that the only thing required of a Christian is to profess belief in the name of Jesus. Just a few moments later, you mentioned the need of baptism. Is one needed, or both? And if both, did we forget anything else? If both, baptism by whom? Just anyone? Can I baptise myself? What makes it valid? Does it have to be witnessed?
Such questions inevitably arise and must be answered, but by whom?
I think your initial gut response to use to the authority, is probably something to meditate on.
Bill really hits the nail on the head with this one – where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty (2 Cor. 3:17). The argument over which system of government is best (i.e. socialism vs. capitalism) misses the point. Either system will result in totalitarianism and societal decay if the covetous heart of man isn’t dealt with. But, if that heart is conformed to the image of Christ, elements of both systems will manifest and will result in success, peace, and prosperity. I think this is why our founders, almost to a man, said in one way or another that if we lose our faith in God, we will lose our freedom. It is the knowledge of God that provides the internal compass that keeps the fallen heart of man in check. “My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge…” (Hos. 4:6).
7 For you yourselves know how you ought to follow us, for we were not disorderly among you; 8 nor did we eat anyone’s bread free of charge, but worked with labor and toil night and day, that we might not be a burden to any of you, 9 not because we do not have authority, but to make ourselves an example of how you should follow us.
2 Thessalonians 3:7-9
Socialism, where everything is free except you.
Jesus making everyone Christian is really the hinge on free will (though as I learned, after the choices made by Adam and Eve the angels were changed to not have free will … though I forget if that was instead after Lucifer’s challenge or not).
People will ask why God doesn’t remove suffering from the world, why did He let this person die or that one commit some terrible crime. I imagine that some socialist types, the collectivist side of them, would love a world like the one pictured in Minority Report, where The Good Guys would swoop down and prevent you from doing anything bad. Of course, when they are defining hamburgers and a nice drink after work, setting your AC thermostat below 80 in the summer and other nice things in life as “crimes” then maybe they wouldn’t be so happy and might want some of their free will back.
One of the all time best yet. Thank you.
I would submit that Jesus was a socialist in a limited sense. His relationship with the disciples was essentially a commune. Bus as you pointed out, there was no coercion involved. They could have left if they chose. And socialism can work in very small groups. A family is generally socialist because everyone has a direct interest in the welfare of the others. But in larger groups like cities, or countries, where people don’t even know each other, socialism breaks down. And regarding the world at large Jesus was certainly NOT a socialist.
Jesus said to give to the poor and help the needy. He never said to have government do it. It had to be your own choice. You were expected to help those in need, but He never recommended forcing others to do so. When the rich man asked how to get into heaven, Jesus told him to sell his stuff and give to the poor. The man refused and walked away because he liked his stuff too much. Jesus did not chase him down and force him to give. It had to be his own choice.
I’ve thought the same thing about small groups being able to use socialism successfully. I’ve also thought of a small group that would not work and that it would be a good way to explain to people that socialism cannot work in large scales: college roommates. You’d always have that 1 in a group of 3-6 apartment sharers that doesn’t do the cleaning in turn, or the cooking, or food buying. You’ll always have one mooch that doesn’t carry a share of the load and instead lives off everyone else.
Most excellent, Gentlemen. We all get to live by and be responsible for our own individual choices. OR, we all have to live by your (your favorite tyrant here) choices, which, you will not take responsibility for when they turn out to be poor choices. For rational people this is not a hard choice.
Mark Twain also said (words to the effect) that the parts of the Bible he didn’t understand didn’t bother him nearly as much as the parts of it that he DID understand.
Bill makes a very good point with “individualism vs. collectivism”.
In order to achieve totalitarian power collectivism must be used to collect and centralize sufficient resources to coerce a population to the will of the tyrant.
That’s not even possible in an individualist based system and our Founding Fathers knew that. They were trying to create a system of governance to Secure the Blessings of Liberty for the individual not the State. A collectivist, powerful State is diminished by the Blessings of Liberty and always moves away from not towards that condition.
The only way an individualist system can be converted without military conquest to a collectivist system is to convince the individuals they want a collectivist system. Which is what we’re seeing now in America.
The tyrant(s) do not want the same thing that they’re trying to convince the individuals that they’re offering. They only hold out the promise of a socialist utopia to get the individuals to give them power. It’s a carrot and a stick. We know this because there is no example in history where that kind of tyrant has been given collectivist power and the people prospered. That always ends in oppression and misery. It is a demonstrably, universally, historically, logically and unequivocally a very, very bad idea.
In fact, it is such a bad idea that in order to get individuals to abandon their individualist system for collectivism it takes generations of sophistry and indoctrination to achieve that goal. The lie that collectivism will usher in a socialist utopia has to be repeated enough times, across enough venues, in enough places that it begins to “feel” like the truth. Even though a casual application of actual knowledge will still show it to be a lie.
This can all be summed up in one of Bill Whittles famous aphorisms …
“It’s easy as to vote yourselves into socialism and hard as hell to shoot your way back out of it.”
As Devo said so well 40 years ago, “Freedom from choice… is what you want. Freedom of Choice… is what you’ve got.”
It’s always a hoot when some godless Leftist tries to say “Jesus was a socialist”. I always tell them they obviously don’t know the Christianity that they’re trying to club people over the head with because …
Am I the only one who upon hearing Zo talk about Jesus paying taxes to the Emissary, had a picture in your head of Jesus paying taxes to Benjamin Sisko?
Two things:
(1) Sweden is not a socialist country. They have high taxes and many social programs funded by the state, but their economy is based on private property.
(2) When Bill spoke of the Congressional Medal of Honor being degraded by giving it frivolously, I am reminded of the Nobel Prize being given to Obama, simply for being Obama.
Doesn’t that apply to like half the people(*) getting the Nobel “Peace” prize? In my head it’s like the Time magazine scumbag of the year title.
(And I’m sorry for the people who got it for actual good work.)
(*) my sampling starts in the 70’s
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_Peace_Prize_laureates
Now seriously, people who know more than me, how many entries you can pick on the list you clearly support vs. clearly not support, vs “who even heard about”?
The lawyer who Martin Short portrayed is “Nathan Thurm”.
I used to have a roommate who talked just like him, and despite that was a generally good guy.
“The gates of hell are locked from the inside.”–C.S. Lewis. In fact, my idea of hell is where all the inhabitants are screaming “My will be done!!” They chose hell.
This topic indeed comes up a lot. I usually point to one key story in Matthew 19:
https://www.biblica.com/bible/?osis=niv:Matthew%2019:16%E2%80%9330
It should be crystal clear, but instead I see it misrepresented in a handful of different ways. Following all kind of agenda.
The key points for our attention:
Jesus did not seek out the guy, he approached with the question
Jesus did provide the answer
the answer was tailored for that very individual
the suggestion was to HIM selling HIS possession to then be free and unburdened to follow
importantly, he DID NOT order him to sell off his neighbor’s possessions
NEITHER did he order his disciples go and sell this guy’s possessions
he did not even said that everyone is supposed to do that, and in the aftermath pointed out how hard it is for those obsessed by wealth to go on any other way
(I read somewhere that the camel/eye of the needle is likely a mistranslation, refers to the big city gates that usually had a small door on them for people traffic while closed — that was called the “eye of the needle” and if you wanted to squeece a camel through, if definitely had to unburden first.)
I’ve learned the same thing regarding the ‘eye of the needle’ reference.
It was right after Sutherland Springs that I really sat down and thought about what freedom meant to Christianity. Passing over the mockery and jeering the left gleefully indulged themselves in over the mass slaughter of innocent people at the hands of a deranged lunatic (so much for being the party of compassion), a valid question was how people like us could continue to believe in God even in the face of terrible tragedy like that. Heck, I know people who stopped believing in God after some personal tragedy hit them, like the death of a loved one. The answer is exactly what you folks said: what’s faith without choice? What’s love without choice? What’s worship without choice? Nothing, that’s what. God COULD come riding in on a burning chariot flanked by legions of angels and beat the universe into submission, but then all the love we’d have for him would be fake. He already has loyal minions who serve Him without second thought: His angels. We were meant to be different. We are His children, not his slaves. And so, we condemn ourselves to pain and suffering on Earth because we are a flawed people living in a broken universe, and God will not enslave us to good.
Of course, that also makes you think about what Hell really is. We always imagine it as a raging pit filled with fire and demons. Yet, Jesus’ purpose was to suffer the punishment of all sin so we wouldn’t have to. And you may notice his final words were, “My God, my God, why have You forsaken me?” Hell is not necessarily a pit of fire. In fact, I expect Hell is not that much different from Earth. Except for one thing: here, we can gather in our circles and have hope for something better. In Hell, we can only gather in our circles and say, “Oh, well.” I expect there’s even churches in Hell. Except, instead of preaching the Good News and talking about the offer of salvation, they’d preach the Good News, tell you about the offer of salvation, and then close the sermon by saying, well, that’s what you COULD have had. Jesus’ offer no longer applies to you. Hell is where we get to see the absolute worst of humanity on constant replay, forever. Hell is where God Himself forgets you. God is not a being who knows what good is; He IS good itself. And that tells you all you need to know about humanity’s sin. We can convince hope itself to lose hope in us.
I posted separately about God removing free will to stop anyone from doing anything bad…
Hell, I was taught, wasn’t a place of torment ruled by devils, as is often pictured, but the place, or state of mind, where you realize you are fully and completely cut off from God. I suppose the sayings like “rain falls on the just and the unjust alike” and that judgement is not passed until someone actually “falls asleep” could also explain why people do not feel cut off yet, even if they don’t believe, because they could still turn to God like the thief on the cross.
Only when you have been judged and found wanting would He remove His grace and mercy from sinners and leave them with the knowledge of why they have given up. Hell isn’t fire, but the worst regret that no one alive knows, when you fully face the consequences of your choices.