Flakes on a Plane: the number of fistfights inside commercial aircraft cabins while in flight is approaching epidemic proportions. But in a world where scores of people can flash mob and destroy a department store and then walk out with $100,000 worth of stolen merchandise, or where entire cities are rendered uninhabitable by crime, homelessness and drug addiction… is this really much of a surprise?
Join our crack team of elite anti-elitists by becoming a member or making a one-time donation right here:
https://billwhittlecom.wpenginepowered.com/register/
62 replies on “Fighter Jets”
Pilots making a point but doing it with a bit of humor really helps people relax I think. I recall taking an overseas flight several years ago on a Canadian charter and the pilot’s announcement included something like:
“…and if you really feel the need to have a cigarette during the flight please there is a smoking section – it’s on the wing of the aircraft and while having your cigarette you can enjoy our inflight presentation of Gone With the Wind.”
One modest step would be to mandate that anybody who initiates violence on a company’s aircraft places that clown on a “No Fly” list for that company, or industry wide. Of course, the Leftist sewer rats are perfectly capable of starting a fight with a DECENT person and then getting the DECENT person banned.
I agree with Bill that this is something, but not so much that this is something new, but something that has been coming for quite some time. Take Disneyland and Walt Disney World as the abstract and brief chronicles of the time. Disney has been cramming people into a metaphorical “middle seat” by the power of 10, since Disney opened in 1955. In fact, for most of their history they benefited from a social proclivity that made being in a crowd a sought after peak experience. You may have noticed the cell phone videos on Youtube and the like, of the increasingly frequent fights breaking out among Guests at the Disney theme parks. I am a late Boomer (’61), grew up in Orlando, left for 25 years then moved back to work at the Walt Disney World Resort in Orlando 17 years ago. I see it getting more pronounced each year. I have come speculate on wether or not I will see the demise of theme parks style of entertainment in my life time. “Can’t we just all get along”?
Steve’s comment about communist stores made me think about old west general stores. Some stores are still like that. My local NAPA does have a few things out in the general area, but most of what they sell is in back. You ask them for it and it is on the counter before you pay, but I don’t wander the isles looking for the right oil filter or headlight bulb like I might at a Walmart or Fleet Farm.
Regarding attitude adjustments on planes, either they will go to an internal/industry wide no fly blacklists like casinos have (I think) or requiring deposits like AirBNB or a rental house. Alternately, since you’re generally paying with a credit card, could just charge you afterward like car rentals in the event of bad behavior. It should be easy to contest as a passenger, but the airline would have a report, possibly a police report, and could easily provide cameras to the flight crews to record the event of you being removed from the plane for your behavior.
another very timely and well thought out episode and all the comments were up to their usual respectful and insightful standards for this BWN. More people should support this site.
I would SO fly Snake Plissken Airlines!
As long as they allow me to carry-on my halberd and mace….
Some of this is the Airlines fault! They keep cramming more people into the space of tiny seats and no legroom. Southwest made 24 Billion in 2022! Surely they can give the paying customers more room?!!
I have a solution for unruly passengers. The captain/pilot can have a button in the cockpit where, if one of the attendants alerts him that someone is acting a fool, he can hit the button and it will jam all devices inside the plane, then the other passengers can beat the idiot(s) into submission.
When I was in the Army we used jamming equipment that was powerful enough to fry a radio station miles away, and our equipment fit into the back of a HMMWV (truck). Fast forward to today (20 years later) and the technology we had is much, much smaller and can easily fit in a commercial plane, and can disable all phones on said plane, virtually removing all phones from the equation. The “tuning up” of unruly passengers will be reserved for instances of people becoming violent, and if nobody can record the incident, there will be plausible deniability, and I’m thinking that sane and sober passengers who just want to get to their destination without drama will unanimously say that the violent passenger(s) tripped and fell into unconsciousness; play stupid games win stupid prizes. Airlines can also hire professional MMA fighters or boxers to do the attitude adjustments instead of leaving it to civilians, there would be 3-4 on each flight, either seated with the other passengers or posing as flight attendants. When the idiots come to and find themselves en route to local jails they will be much less likely to act like fools on flights again.
“Good morning, and welcome to flight 1327, service to Miami. I am your head flight attendant, Jean-Claude Van Damme.
Your good behavior is expected, and WILL be enforced…”
Funny, but I’m not joking.
The pilot’s announcement made me smile, but as someone who has worked with the public for twenty years, it struck more as the sort of thing you talk about saying in the pub after a shift rather than actually do. It was rather long, and a bit of a challenge, red rag to a drunk bull territory. A short, quite blunt, statement of how it is going to be might have been more effective. I know the stakes are high on planes but people die in bus crashes too, I’m not sure how I’d take to a bus driver starting off with a rambling announcement about the journey being a triumph of his will.
There was a time when trains, and the stations they traveled between were civilized places, but that is no longer true. Buses and bus stations followed the same downward trajectory, perhaps having started from a somewhat lower threshold, they have succeeded in sinking ever lower and more rapidly too boot. The fact is that civilization, and thus civility is on the same downward path overall and these iconic transportation forms and centers are simply focal points at which to view the decline!
I agree with you on that point. Children are no longer being taught civility!
And mass transportation is where that lack is most telling.
Retired old (pre-9/11/2001) UAL. It wasn’t all that long ago the major air carriers found they could add 3-4 more rows on 747s by moving all the cheap seats back two inches, and the business and first class dividers forward and seats forward 4-5 inches. Once that was accomplished their collective motto seemed to become “Cram and jam as many as we can.”
EXACTLY! SW made 24B in 2024. Let’s get some room between seats again. Greed is driving the madness.
I am not so sure it’s much related to the ticket price. People have just become lazier and trashier for years now. It’s a lack of human decency and general respect. Nobody cares much for others anymore. We live in such a “me first” culture now. Doing things for people you’ll never meet, like not throwing your gum on the sidewalk, just doesn’t compute with many people. Act like garbage and people will treat you like garbage. We need more two parent families and those parents need to keep smartphones out of kids’ hands until they’re 16, and the kids need taught to be respectable.
I read through the comments waiting for someone to state the obvious, but everyone was so PC. It is perhaps at 98% where whenever this occurs, fighting, looting, mob thefts, etc. who is involved? It is primarily the darker skinned element of our society. Everyone is afraid of being labeled a racist, but it has nothing to do with race, it is culture. This segment of our society is 75 or more percent raised without a father, and without a male authority figure in the home, and where the violent or criminal behavior of teenage males is not addressed within their culture. Additionally, these cheap airlines treat their customers with disdain forcing them to pay for every little convenience, which I believe contributes to the mood on the plane. Whenever I see a crowd of darker skinned people, anywhere, I immediately take extra precaution to avoid getting into a situation. Especially if this group is under 25, danger danger, be forewarned.
Observing reality is NOT racism and expressing truth is NOT bigotry.
I am sick of it being treated that way and will NO LONGER comply.
The same with transgender ideology. I REFUSE to comply by going along with THEIR delusions. A man is a man and a woman is a woman and I REFUSE to acknowledge anything else.
I don’t hate anyone – I love the truth.
“There is nothing more painful to me at this stage in my life than to walk down the street and hear footsteps… then turn around and see somebody white and feel relieved.” ― Jesse Jackson
The reason I know about that quote is that I saw it framed in an FBI office somewhere in the midwest. Even Jesse Jackson at one time was willing to see that there are problems in the black community, and say so.
You’re absolutely right, it’s a cultural issue not one of genetics and skin tone.
I grew up where there were no black people at all. Before I enlisted in the Marines fresh out of high school the only black person I had ever met was an inner city black kid that we had stay with us on the farm for two weeks as part of a church program. I was about 12 years old. He was great, but he wasn’t anything like a realistic sample.
My parents were very much behind the civil rights situation in the 60’s. Things like segregation in business and transportation were just wrong. I still agree with them on that.
So when I joined the Marines I was more predisposed to look on other races as being the same as me just with different skin tones. Boy did I get a surprise. It didn’t take me long to observe in real life in real time that was not the case at all.
I didn’t have anything at all against any other race. What I learned about relations between races was taught to me by other races. What I observed was that there were good and bad and that the problem was cultural not genetic. The thing is, where there were problems there were really, really bad problems. Dangerous problems not of my doing.
Because some of those guys were raised in a culture so alien to my 17 year old experience that they might as well have come from another planet. In order to protect myself from those people I had to make some serious adjustments in my outlook.
I decided that to be fair and still not get suckered or worse, and there was a lot worse going on than being suckered into something — I would give a white guy a chance to prove he’s an asshole and a black guy a chance to prove he’s not.
Nearly 50 years later I have not come across any real, applicable justification to change that position. It is basically a matter of determining which culture someone is from.
I’ve known some damn fine black people in my life. We white people don’t have any shortage of miscreants, villains and lowlifes either. You can’t count on skin color when determining if you’re dealing with a good person or a bad one. It’s my experience that if you want to be a good person yourself you have to allow for the fact that skin color does not determine character. Culture does.
The Left now wants to make out like all white people are demonic and all black people are angelic. This is as untrue and absurd no matter which way you flip the roles around.
Similar mindset here. My attitude is that I will treat you as I would wish to be treated….UNTIL YOU GIVE ME REASON TO TREAT YOU DIFFERENTLY. After that, you get what you give…
Yeah, and just to expand on that a bit for greater clarity …
I am looking at how other people act. I show them how I expect to be treated by how I treat them but they should understand that they’re doing the same. The difference being I’m demonstrating my expectations and they’re displaying whether they should be treated in a certain manner, displaying exactly the manner they’re going to be dealt with by me.
My treatment of others is a signal. If they send the signal that they’re not going to reciprocate then they get back exactly what they asked for. Because they DID ask for it and it doesn’t matter if they’re aware of doing that or not.
Thus, if I seem to be hard or harsh in my treatment of someone, that’s just a reflection. I don’t go around picking fights. If I’m hostile to someone it’s because they asked for that hostility. Not that I’m some sort of ogre going around looking for puppies to kick.
I like puppies. I don’t like stupid, mean, snide, uncivil, ignorant, intractable, condescending people at all. I don’t ignore people like that, it just encourages them and they’ve probably had way too much encouragement as it is.
I demonstrate my sincerity in that regard everywhere; online, offline, in person, etc. If I’d insult you online I’d do the same face to face.
This is made manifest here on this site. There are people, I may not always agree with them, but they’ve acted civil and gotten the same from me. Indeed, the test comes when we disagree about a thing and how they react to it. If I disagree politely and civilly and they’re of sufficient character and intelligence to realize that and reciprocate — We have a cordial or even friendly relationship.
I should also note that a firm disagreement is not an attack, it’s simply my opinion stated as clearly with supporting arguments as possible. I don’t hate anyone just because we don’t agree on something.
I may also give someone a good natured, friendly poke in the ribs and I expect the same back AND I CAN TAKE IT if that’s what I get. I showed them how I expect to be treated, I asked for friendly chiding and ribbing back. I’m a big boy and I’m secure in who and what I am.
There are people who take a disagreement in opinion as some sort of attack. There are people who attack anyone who doesn’t agree with them too. That sort are not going to get civility from me unless they change their ways. Which they almost never do.
Stop holding back. Tell us how you really feel!
LOL, OK. Next time maybe I’ll do that … 🙂
As a kid I remember putting my Swiss Army Knife in the little basket and picking it up again on the other side of the metal detector. Then 9-11 happens and a growing political correctness infection swells to gobble up “safety.” Twenty years go by and the “safety” pandemic metastasizes to include safety from all consequences. I would rather have kept my Swiss Army Knife.
I used to fly for business quite a bit. Not weekly, but monthly at least. My radius for driving and then using rail had increased over the years to the point where if it was less than an 8 hour drive, I would drive.
The inconvenience of routes plus delays and cancelations combined with the Calcutta like atmosphere in airports more than outweighed the supposed speed of travel.
I even started driving a couple hours to a larger, hub airport that would have a direct flight to (nearby) my destination. e.g. If I needed to meet a rep in the Chicago area where we would be driving for several days, I would drive to Greensboro and fly to Milwaukee and have him pick me up there, hit the WI clients first then go to Chicago, then back to Milwaukee for my return flight and drive home. No intermediate stop, no O’Hare.
East coast I started taking Amtrak as far as Boston. Much more relaxing and few delays.
Flying has gotten so much worse in the last 15 years, this latest bit is just icing on the cake. Don’t care if I never fly again. Yes, there are places we want to go, but we will plan those meticulously so as to minimize time in airports.
And yes, I remember getting dressed up to get on a plane when it was a big deal.
The arrive two hours in advance routine, to go through security theater, two or more hours of flight time, fighting crowds on and off the plane, shuttles and wait times to rental car agencies AND dealing with that low-life atmosphere and a 8 to 12 hour drive seems both pleasant and inexpensive.
I do recommend the train as an option depending on where you are headed. I find that I get to my destination relaxed and the seats are way more comfortable.
It is a shame that Rail Travel cannot be more economical.
I remember ash trays in armrests! 1969 Pan Am 707. SFO to Honolulu .
I always laughed at the arbitrary “smoking section” as if smoke would stop at a sign.
Sort of the same mentality behind the idea that gun free zones keep guns out …
I remember the first time I went to Houston on a business trip and saw the sign at Bush Airport.
It reads: Concealed Carry Allowed on Premises.
I think it has a green circle around the handgun image.
Yep, TX!
A friend of my daughter’s family runs a daycare.
His sign is similar, but it reads.
Concealed Carry Permit Holder On Premises.
He’s the dude I call if evidence needs to disappear.;-)
It’s the same tech they used for restaurants during the ‘pandemic’. The virus can’t reach you when you’re sitting at your table, due to the magic forcefield.
But, stand up? Now you’re a disease vector just waiting to kill everyone! Unless you strap a scrap of diaper over your mouth…
I remember when we used to dress up to get on an airplane. I also remember we dressed up for church, school (we had to wear dresses until I was in 9th grade), and neighborhood birthday parties. It’s true that you act differently when you are dressed in nice clothes. And you are treated differently by other people.
Now it’s a free-for-all both fashion-wise and temperament-wise. It’s perfectly acceptable to look slovenly. If you don’t care how you look when you leave the house, I’m pretty sure you won’t care about how you treat others. I’m still amazed at the jammies/slippers, torn jeans, baggy pants that you need to hold up with one hand (and still shows your boxer shorts). These are worn by the kids I see on the way to school!
As far as air travel goes, I think the airlines should pipe nitrous oxide (or some other gas that relaxes) through the airplane that would knock everyone out, then wake them up just before landing. I would love to get to my destination well-rested and feeling like the flight took only minutes instead of several hours. I know this would never happen, but it would solve the in-flight fights, drunkenness, and other uncivil behavior by passengers!
It’s true that you act differently when you are dressed in nice clothes. And you are treated differently by other people.
This is a very profound statement and very difficult to make people understand. Goes along with dress for the job you want.
I recall a place I worked in the early 90s. It was a manufacturing plant that leadership was trying to keep from going union. So the GM mandated no ties and he purposely wore a blue button down so that he wasn’t “white” collar.
So this is a pretty casual place. I came in as a corporate trainee and was a bit put off, but whatever, left the tie at home.
But here’s the thing.
They still had “Casual Friday”. People dressed like they would working in the yard or on their car. Since they were casual everyday, they had to go a step (or 4) down from that. One of the least professional places I ever worked and they did not survive.
That’s hilarious and reminds me of an episode of “The Office” where Meredith exposes herself in her “casual” attire!
When I was a year away from graduating from college, I thought it would be a good idea to get some programming experience in order to get a jump on my competition. It was part-time and paid only $5.00/hour (this was 1986) but I dressed in my two-piece suit and heels and went to the interview. After I got the job, I asked my boss why he hired me (with zero experience) and he said I was the only one who dressed up for the interview. You never know what’s going to give you the edge, but looking professional is one of the easiest ways.
!2 plus years ago, we were hiring an engineer to support manufacturing. One guy came in for an interview who knew several of the folks already working here. So he knew we did not wear ties (too much rotating equipment, ties are a hazard). However, he was the only one who didn’t show up for the interview in a jacket and tie. He was the first one cut.
Years ago ( I want to say about 15 as my dad was still alive and in relatively good health) my parents wanted to try something different. They rented a house in Hilton Head for Thanksgiving. I wanted to drive my family but my folks wanted the whole trip to be on them so we flew, two connections.
On the return flight, which was full, one very conceited guy was torqued that he wasn’t sitting with his wife and child. The flight attendant said quite simply, take your assigned seat and after we get all the pre-flight work done we can address seating arrangements.
Well, Sparky didn’t like that plan. So before the attendant had moved five feet while counting heads, he got someone to switch seats. Without missing a beat, the FA said – You are out of here, off the plane. There was no second chance, no second warning. I told you to sit and you didn’t. Of course he got belligerent so the pilot came out, listened to his version which was close to the truth, heard the part where the flight attendant had told him to sit in his assigned seat, and waved for the police to take him off the plane.
Now that may all seem very minor, but recall this is the Sunday after Thanksgiving. The busiest air travel day of the year. This was in my view, the broken windows theory set in action. There was no quarter no negotiation, it is the pilot’s plane and the FA is his agent. Listen and do what you are told or lose your seat.
Action – Consequence.
Obviously there are clear conveniences to flying commercially. But as Bill, Steve and Scott have pointed out, there seems to be a growing risk as society / civility declines.
General Aviation is slower, more weather sensitive, expensive & unscheduled. But the upside is, one flies – weather permitting – on their own schedule. With limited load capacity, seats are limited, so one generally knows who is on board. And generally, departure and destination airports are closer to you and where you want to go.
It’s not a perfect solution by any means, but it is something to consider if your travel is in country & less than, say 1000 miles.
I wonder if this behavior has increased from the pandemic and the locking down of society. I do not recall reports of this prior to covid and the governments’ overreaction by locking everything down. Just wondering.
Disarm the public, and impropriety and disdain for others will increase, because the offenders are no longer summarily executed onsite. The fear of meeting God is the only thing that keeps the rabble in check.
The solution for preventing fistfights on airlines would include the words, “EJECT! EJECT! EJECT!” However, such a solution would require an airlock in which to place the offenders — for the protection of the remaining passengers at 30000 feet.
I consider that procedure “flying lessons”. Tell them you sit down or you get “flying lessons”. Bounces don’t count.
The “something new is happening” is accurate. It did not start on airplanes. It started when we saw our elected officials and elites breaking normative behaviors and laws. That behavior is continuing and getting far far worse. If they don’t behave why should I?
This topic has gone unaddressed way too long, so THANK YOU for covering it. My daughters and grandkids live 1000 miles away, and I would love to see them – it’s been 7 years. I won’t fly because of today’s society, and don’t want them to risk it either. So, more disconnect among families, more isolation, more loneliness… it’s EXACTLY what the left wants, so why would “law enforcement” choose to change any of it?
I’m between Scott and Bill here. Yes I think the atmosphere in coach contributes to people’s attitudes that it just doesn’t matter. On the other hand, I feel like this behavior is tolerated to some degree, and people think: what the hell doesn’t matter.
When you get a 100 or so people crowded together, all of whom for the past decade have been incredibly self-centered (thanks FB/Insta/etc) and think that their own desires should be ahead of anyone else’s; then any inconvenience is met with a totally out of proportion response.
Why is it tolerated?
We no longer live in a civilized society and I believe this is the goal. Because in an uncivilized society, government “will have to” take control of people to keep the peace. This is the next step in progression. Societal norms deteriorate so much that the people are clamoring for a benign dictatorship.
“Benign” dictatorships don’t stay that way long. They don’t live forever, and the next dictator tends to be anything but benign.
BTW, this is the third week without a Virtue Signal. Is Zo okay? Is he still part of the team? I miss him.
Been wondering about that myself. I hope we haven’t lost Zo, for any reason.
Bill did a special TSL the other night. Mentioned that money had gotten tight and that he has put VS on hiatus. Is looking at doing some additional fundraising which is very hard for him personally to do, along with another show idea that he thinks will drive some membership.
If anyone has an extra $10 this is the time.
Also why Bill is doing the editing and uploads himself.
Last night’s TSL he went deep into his new series of shows ideas. Watch it and hear from the horse’s mouth, not my bad paraphrasing. I CAN say I like the idea and thought his 1 show called Speakeasy, and his other interview shows were good, looks like he’s heading that direction again. Gotta say, the man knows people. Gary Sinese? Adam Baldwin? The list went on as he read the names of folks he’d like to interview, and several times he’s said ‘I know him/her’. I’m actually looking forward to this show which would be on a completely new YT channel, as shorts or little longer shorts, but the entire shows would be available only to BWDC subscribers. As a bonus, level 2 BW subscribers get to watch the unedited version (because dead air, hums and haws, are authentic) and I guess the super duper subs (I could only dream) get to ask questions for Bill to ask the guest. He’s pretty excited about it and it’s a fun break from the red meat politics, for him. But again, watch the TSL as the master plan unfolds in minute 1 through probably minute 30 of the TSL.
Yes, I watched the one before that. Still need to watch last night’s. But that is what I was referring to above.
And you got a question in. Go you!
I can’t find any TSL done recently. Was it live only? I miss them.
I think he is only posting them on YT and Rumble. Not posting here. I think it is one of the things that got dropped when he took over as Webmaster. But they are still on YT definitely.
Thanks
That’s exactly right, Bill. There are NO consequences. So the solution to this problem is simple – there must be consequences. There are a whole lot law enforcement people who, for whatever reason, are not doing their jobs.
There’s no big mystery here. We have an epidemic, alright. We’ve forgotten how to be grateful. The corollary is that happiness has it’s roots in gratefulness. And what’s the most reliable societal means to remind us to be grateful? Church.
Amen, Brother Jackson. And I mean that sincerely, this isn’t a chide 🙂
Big time agree. And if I remember right, somewhere in California, strip clubs were open, where churches were shut down during the pandemic. Gee, I wonder what was being supported vs what was being repressed? 🤔
See constitutional amendment #1, first part. Something about not prohibiting free exercise of religion? Speech, protesting too. Add in the second amendment. I guess the left will start quartering troops next. (Amendment #3). Seven more after that to go.
Grateful … the state of being full of grates. :smirk:
Seriously, tho … you are spot on. Until such gratefulness once again becomes commonplace, MAMA needs to take the miscreants behind the barn for a good ol’ whuppin’.
I haven’t even watched this episode yet, but I have to add something here to support what I would believe to be the topic.
Since 1998, Business has taken me across the Pacific on 61 trips. That’s 122 hops across the ‘really big pond’ for the math challenged. Plus, on all of those trips, a round trip hop from Taiwan to ….Hong Kong or Bangkok would happen. 244 times to get on a big jet with a bunch of people. Not one incident, either in Economy, Economy Deluxe or in (when I was lucky) business class. All Asian airlines. Full of, primarily, Asians…..and me.
I take my wife to Missouri for a quilting convention 4 years ago, we fly from San Jose to Kansas City. American Airlines. My first domestic flight in years. Whaddya know. Drunk argument over getting cut off by the FA for what else, being DRUNK. Bitching, screaming, yelling, punching the backrest of the passenger in front of the drunk. Other’s yelling at the Drunk. Still other’s yelling at the F/A for cutting the drunk off. Mayhem.
1 domestic flight, full of Americans.
Can’t wait to watch this R/A at lunch.
Ok, just watched it and, it was everything I expected. My previous post on this focuses more on the cultural side then economic side. Loved the Spirit of Frontier crack…..
John Lovell (WPS) did a recent show discussing how he had to subdue a wildman on a plane flight who happened to be beating up men, women and flight attendants. He was thanked by the flight attendants, every one of them.