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MB2A Episode 5: GOING GULCH

‘Going Galt’ doesn’t mean just dropping out — it also means opening up somewhere else.

MB2A Episode 5: GOING GULCH

Become a member or make a one-time donation. ‘Going Galt’ doesn’t mean just dropping out — it also means opening up somewhere else.

https://youtu.be/HJaiyMtXIbE

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196 replies on “MB2A Episode 5: GOING GULCH”

Bill, I finally watched Going Gulch… sorry to be so far behind.
I found your comments fascinating and I expect that more and more people will be interested in going “underground” in the coming years (assuming there will be a Biden/Harris administration). If taxes and regulations go back to the levels of the Obama administration, we will likely have the same anemic economy we had then. I read a few of the member comments and some of them included very practical ideas. I have a few comments about the ideas you expressed:

  1. Bartering/trading labor… It has always been a small part of our economy and may get bigger… it works for some things, but is hard to scale. It maybe possible to expand the opportunities for person to person commerce by the use of….
  2. Gifting… The tax code allows any individual to give $25,000 to any other individual each year. The gift money is not taxable income for the recipient. So, a husband and wife could gift up to $50,000 per year to someone of whom they were especially found… maybe someone who is generous with his or her time and helps them a lot by fixing a car, building a room addition to their house, gardening, providing professional services, etc.
  3. Amish Barn Raising… The neighbors helping build the barn didn’t receive any benefit and would not be of interest to the IRS… The IRS could (but probably wouldn’t) go after the barn owner for imputed income equal to the value of the donated labor.
  4. Withholding… You are correct about the disastrous effects of this practice… this is one reason the states and the federal government hate independent contractors… they want everyone to be employees so that their employers are forced to collect the taxes for the government (withholding) and the government can control the flow of funds. My wife and I pay quarterly estimated taxes, and it is painful. Many years ago I knew a fellow who had a lot of employees. On payday he had a long table set up in the front office and all the employees would line up to get their pay. He sat at one end of the table and several of his office staff sat along the length of the table. As each employee came up to the table, the boss handed the employee his pay envelope. The envelope contained the employees wages, in full, in cash. As the employee moved down the table, he had to hand over some of that cash for federal income taxes, then for state income tax, then for medicare/FICA, then for SDI, etc. to the members of the office staff who were assigned to collect the correct amounts for each of the government sinkholes. This process took time and was cumbersome, but it did give the employees a very real experience of paying taxes… and it made an impression.

Bill, thanks to you, Scott and Stephen for all that you do to inform us and keep our spirits up… We will get through this and things will get better… Keep up the great work!

I like the MB2A series very much, especially the ‘Going Gulch’ point of increasing efforts to benefit the outcomes that I want – in addition to minimizing support for outcomes that I don’t want. I like your idea of having a weekly ‘main points summary’, which would be helpful when we miss episodes or as reminders of previous lessons. If possible, keeping the episodes around 30 minutes and having a ‘Part 2 or 3’ as needed. I know that it takes more effort and preparation time to be concise, so it may take more than 30 minutes to get through your points when you are free speaking.

I know I’m a little late joining in on this, but I do have a couple of suggestions. Firstly, however, I think Bill and the team are doing great. This is what Americans (and those from other lands like myself) need to hear.
Suggestions:
1) As has been suggested before, perhaps limit these MB2A shows to around half an hour. While an hour is good in terms of the information delivered, it has been shown that people tend to have reduced attention levels over ~30 mins. Of course, this varies a great deal depending on person and various attention-getting details. (You might watch a 2 hour movie in one sitting, but how much would you pay to listen to the same actors just read the script?)

2)This one is more to do with the rest of BW rather than this particular show.
While I certainly understand the severity of the crisis at hand, I do think there’s a time for some levity. Some might say it’s not the time for jokes, but even those fighting in the trenches of WW1, found time for humour. Not because they weren’t taking the fighting seriously, but to relieve the almost unremitting strain of combat. If we’re gonna be in for the long haul, we can’t be burning ourselves out in the first few weeks.
I was thinking of a weekly issue of ‘News Actually’ that Scott trialed back in the early days after you’d split from PJTV. I do realise that Scott has another job and may not have the time, so perhaps Steve could do something.
Just a thought.

Has anyone posted any lists that have businesses that are run by people who support america outloud and quietly. I havent read everything and often only have time to spot check comment sections when im working between the sleeps.

Regarding your observations about the hereditary wealthy:
There is a lyric from a Song by Australian singer/guitarist Ian Moss:
“…People born with all they need
They don’t understand
Everything you want don’t come from holding out your hand”

Monero crypto currency has scared the government silly. Monero is the leading cryptocurrency with a focus on private and censorship-resistant transactions.Most existing cryptocurrencies, including Bitcoin and Ethereum, have transparent blockchains, meaning that transactions are openly verifiable and traceable by anyone in the world. Furthermore, sending and receiving addresses for these transactions may potentially be linkable to a person’s real-world identity.
Monero uses cryptography to shield sending and receiving addresses, as well as transacted amounts.
Monero transactions are confidential and untraceable.Every Monero transaction, by default, obfuscates sending and receiving addresses as well as transacted amounts. This always-on privacy means that every Monero user’s activity enhances the privacy of all other users, unlike selectively transparent cryptocurrencies (e.g. Zcash).
Monero is fungible. By virtue of obfuscation, Monero cannot become tainted through participation in previous transactions. This means Monero will always be accepted without the risk of censorship. This product has the possibility to provide transactions with trust and governments cannot see the transactions.

Bill, have you established a parler.com account yet?
Step “0” has to sever the umbilical from Facebook (& Twitter if you’re on Twitter). I’ll look for you on Parler. If you’re not yet familiar, do yourself an enormous good deal. Once you’re fluent on Parler you’ll never look back.

First time posting on the site!

To offer Bill some feedback as it relates to formatting of Moving Back To America. I think that by excluding current events/news of the day, you would set the show apart from other political commentary. Additionally, sticking to the more philosophical and focusing on the future would likely lend to a relevance that is both stronger and more durable!

As for the duration of each episode.. It seems that you are concerned that not having the optimum episode length will dramatically effect view count (and it may very well and probably does), however I would say that the ideal episode would run somewhere between 30m and 1h, the actual time for each podcast depending on you and the topics in particular of course.

Cheers! And keep at this new show!!
Can’t see a reason to stop until we can look around and see the effects of the determination of good people, and even then..

After watching this video, I realize that my wife and I have been practicing in our own little circle some of what Bill said.
When Gov Jolson allowed VA to reopen some, we started going to a couple of places to eat and shop. I notice now that we have only started going back to places that are owned by people who think like we do about government. We didn’t go back to the restaurants owned by the crazy libs even though the food was pretty good. We went to places where the owners railed out loud about the restrictions.
So we are only sending our $$ to “our” side. It’s a start. I also know that the contractor I hired for some remodeling is one of “us”. It was part of the reason he got the job. Now that Bill has made me think about this, it will continue to be a foremost consideration. I don’t need to spend $$ with people who don’t like me and want me controlled by the government.

In Atlas Shrugged the cigarettes had a gold symbol of some sort. Maybe we need something inconspicuous like the “we take visa” stickers to put in the windows of our shops and on our invoices. (My copy is in a box. Does anyone remember the cigarette brand logo?)

A big bravo to the members and especially all you new folks on here!. 150+ comments to this vid plus a growing number of blog posts. This is our own little social media space. Looking forward to reading as much as I can and commenting back and forth.

Great first week, Bill. A couple quick points in case you read through these comments.
1) Like my dad always told me: K.I.S.S. Lay out the point or two that you want to make, and make it. As a long time member and TSL’r, I know that you can espouse on many topics for a for well over an hour with barely a need for breath, much less a few sips of water. But, conciseness here is probably better. You are not just preaching to the choir of BWdotCom members, but those on YT/FB/Rumble and anyone to whom we email the links. I think after 20-30 minutes, they are not listening. Shoot for 20 and stop by 30. As you say this is like a TSL every morning, it can be concise.
2)Before you post the video, can you edit out the first 20-30 seconds while you get into place. The members know you are coming, but someone I send this to may think I sent them a blank video of a title slide.

A. Cash (and barter) is king. Need a new fence? Vet your contractors, select an American, pay cash with a wink-wink. I’m salaried and can’t avoid the weekly tax rape, but I can help my fellow Americans by lessening their tax burden.
B. If you can afford to… max your IRA or 401K contributions during the coming storm – to avoid paying the tax burden on as much of your income as you can. Caution: this is short term strategy, since I have no doubt the parasites will eventually come after our retirements.
C. Maximize your H.S.A. (health savings account). What you don’t spend on ‘qualified’ expenses will accumulate and eventually will be available to you when you can retire. See caution under ‘B’.
D. Vet the businesses you spend money at. Focus on the American-centric businesses.
E. If your of retirement age, get off the tread mill and enjoy what time you have. Sure, you’ll give up some of your monthly S.S. payment, but you’ll have turned around the flow of cash between you and the parasite. Continue to follow A and D.

Thanks for the ideas. 🙂 I’m sure they will come after any way we have to make money. I’ve never trusted the stock market. They behave like scared rabbits and retirement savings can be gone in the blink of an eye. Where does all the money go that regular folks lose? Other people get “scoops” from whomever and move their money b4 they lose it. Another grift. Anyway, I did the early retirement thing from my “day job”. Lost a lot of monthly income, but the peace of mind was SO worth it. Ha ha! Blessings.

Agree with all of these points. Only thing I would change is to Maximize your HSA first. It has the same tax benefit as the 401k/IRA but it is portable if you leave your current job and it is liquid as long as you use it for medical expenses.
Using or accessing your 401k / IRA may have penalties and tax implications if you needed the cash for medical purposes.

We need a tax accountant to weigh in. Wink-wink is tax E vision and it’s illegal. Barter is supposed to be claimed also. We need someone to teach us how to do legal tax avoidance. 1099 employees can take expense deductions legally. I am thinking about working the numbers backwards so that I stay under the 12K (?) deduction and pay no to little taxes on the no to little profits. For example, if I film a topic and post it on Gab TV, then my camera equipment, my web hosting and Gab membership all become business tax deductions. My other question for the tax accountant is the whole charity angle. I know a dentist who does work for just the cost.I don’t know what he has to do paperwork wise to have a audit proof trail. We need some more info!.

Regarding Bill’s desire for feedback…The length of the shows, the fact that they are daily, and the content are all excellent in my opinion.

I would like to have a legal opinion as to whether one started to publicly advocate for not paying income tax on a massive scale, if one could be liable.

Atlas Shrugged so happens to be my favorite fictional work, btw.

Not sure how to or if we can decline payroll tax, but we can find other employment that works on a different model. At least delay the pay in to IRS.
They too will pick us off one by one. Defeat the IRS would need millions refusing to pay. By the time they voted on legislation to force the payment, they’d be in hot water.
If we don’t pay the govt. could very well start some kind of “papers” to prove you paid your tax or else you don’t get access to this or that. Sounds draconian, but I don’t trust the incoming (apparently) administration.
We all need to become familiar with our state and IRS tax rules (basic ones) so we can understand what we can’t do (at the moment). IMO

About 35 years ago in a job I had, there was a group who wanted to come around on payday and have the (in the case mechanics) payed their full pay by check. The group would then set up tables and the men would go table to table and after having cashed those checks for their full pay, continue thru the tables and pay their Fed withholding, Social Security, Medicare, State Withholding, union dues, etc. Needless to say, the government didn’t like it nor did my boss who I believe was pressured to not allow it. I have forever felt if individuals looked at those lines on their check, plus what you are talking about the line on their tax return that says “tax paid” vs “tax owed” or “tax refund”, and change election date to tax day, there would be a huge change in the Fed Gov.
Loved the first week.

Some of the things I thought of that I can do now are:
Shop mom & pop (local) businesses, ditch the “instant gratification” companies that are anti-American (Amazon, cable, cell providers, ads or subscriptions on FB, You Tube, & other social media who censor).
Find alt social media sites that support free speech & be willing to pay a small fee. How do you think free social media makes a profit? Your personal information!
And yes, I left Facebook and You Tube last month. I gave up around 2K followers, group members, etc. I feel better and have went to alt tech like Parler, BitChute, Odyssey, Lbry, Gab, & Brighteon.
There are others like MeWe, Telegram, Discord, DLive, Daily Motion, Locals, Minds & Rumble. You just have to visit the sites and see which ones you like, etc. Some are convo type and others are video platforms similar to You Tube.
I think we need to make the monopolistic social media feel the pain of 74M users leaving their sites.
It can be done. I did it. If you say you’re staying on FB to keep up with family . . . then contact them, get their phone #, etc. and simply give them a call or text or have them follow you to another platform. Just a suggestion.
Sorry for the rant. Just had to get it out. 🙂

I haven’t logged in to Facebook since the election. I was only there for some hobby groups anyway; I miss those a bit and might go back just for them. I’m still using YouTube for specific non-political things I’m interested in – haven’t been able to find the same content anywhere else yet. I’ve barely ever used Twitter so that’s no loss.

I’ve signed up for Parler (which I expect I won’t use any more than I do Twitter), MeWe (to replace FB, also not using it for now), and Rumble (hoping to see that YouTube content over there, no luck yet).

Due to a limited budget and some health issues, I need to use at least one national retailer, Walmart. (Walmart+ has become essential to me.) I sometimes order presents from eBay and, rarely, Amazon. I won’t miss those if I drop them. Everything else I buy locally.

The problem with buying local, apart from usually being more expensive (which I don’t care much about), is that no matter what you buy, it’s all but certain that at least some of it was made by companies or in countries, especially China, that are anti-American. I wonder how much it actually helps to buy local.

We didn’t pay attention for so long & now we’re here. Everyone should look at their pay stubs for each pay period & add up all the various taxes they paid, then total up for the year. Let it slap you in the face! Now’s a great time to do it since the year is ending.
I was paying around 30% before I decided to take early retirement from my job. That’s basically 1/3 of my earnings.
Our politicians “graciously” gave a 1.3% COLA for 2021 for Social Security & VA disability. For me, that means an extra $16 a month. For people who’ve worked their whole life & paid into the “retirement” fund of Social Security. For people who went to war for our country (for the MIC) and lost their health, limbs, and minds . . . IF they came back at all.
But they give themselves raises every year. They get paid while they “edict” us to stay home and close our businesses (they make 6 figures, have their own special retirement even if they only serve 1 term, and great special medical plan too).
They “graciously” “give” a stimulus of $1200 to us, but the bill is in the trillions. Where did the rest of the money go? Now they are talking about giving us $600 while the tab is in the billions. Where’s that money going? Are we paying taxes on the stimulus? Will we have to pay it back? It’s our own tax money they’re “giving” us, like they did us a favor.
I don’t know about you, but I’m “livid” about the whole rot.

Some possible ways to reduce tax burden that came to my mind were contract employees, nonprofit org’s (think Habitat for Humanity for building), barter & donating work for credits or something.

One way of spreading the idea of using a barter system nationwide is the “Next Door Neighbor” groups I’ve seen popping up for the past few years. We can use those to begin posting our skills and our needs, and asking if anyone is willing to trade a skill for a need. That way we’re using an existing system to spread the idea of bartering a lot faster and further. Thoughts?

I was on “next door” for a few years. (Not sure if it’s the same one you’re referring to.) I thought it was great for the stuff you mentioned. I haven’t used it in a while, but it helped local biz, odd jobs, help wanted, etc.

Nextdoor has become worse than Twitter or Facebook.
First of all, the parameters of verified individuals were never met. A big selling point for me was that users were verified and only real people were there.
Secondly, the mob mentality is on steroids there. It was awful.

Just curious, do you live in a blue area? It seems it’s worse in Dem controlled areas. It was okay here (other than the constant “found dog or cat” posts) up until about 6 months ago. I used it in a smaller town though.

@ Susan and Michael: I suppose it depends a lot on the quality of the neighborhoods. We’ve been very lucky here, with folks looking out for each other and warning of possible dangers. That’s why I came up with this in the first place, and I still think it could be used to build a barter system in areas. Can you think of a way that yours might be turned around to something useful? Just wondering.

I think it’s possible, but I would kind of “test” my area and the comments from people. If you have a lot of “Carin’s”, then no. Here, we have a few “offended” (there’s a college nearby, go figure). But they usually get blasted by reasonable people. I’m in CO, so like most states it’s turned blue in Denver, Ski areas, and up the I-25 corridor to include the college city here. 🙁 So, I wouldn’t do it in those areas.

One way we can fight against the tyranny of the federal government is to take back control of the public purse. If the Republican governors would have to courage to use the power we elected them to wield on our behalf, we could solve the situation very quickly, I believe.
My proposal is to tell all the taxpayers in the Republican majority controlled states to begin having the absolute minimum federal tax withdrawn from their paychecks and instead send the money saved to a sort of escrow account which the Governor could then use to reimburse the federal government for items which benefit the taxpayers of their respective states. Items like the military, air traffic control and airport maintenance, highway construction and repair, border security, etc. However, they could refuse to pay for items like the Green New Deal, paying off debt ridden states which have spent themselves into bankruptcy, and defunding bloated federal bureaucracies of all kinds. This is civil disobedience at the grandest level, but would starve the ravenous beast the federal government has become.
To do this would require extreme courage on the part of the Governors and State Legislators, and an absolute necessity that they be protected from vengeful acts by the federal government. It may not be as simple as I’ve laid out, but I believe it’s entirely feasible.

In my view there are few Rep’s at any level of govt. that are brave enough or not bought off, blackmailed, etc. willing to do the work of the people. I see a few blasting wrong doing folks, but then nothing ever happens to them. (Trey Gowdy, Ted Cruz, Rand Paul & others.) As Bill said, a certain kind of person aspires to enter politics and make a living at it. (Generally speaking.)

I re-post this as food for thought……
Michael Krieger| Posted Monday May 11, 2020 at 2:28 pm
Each crisis in the 21st century has been aggressively and ruthlessly wielded into a massive wealth and power grab by the American oligarchy and national security state. The big power grab following 9/11 centered around whittling away constitutional rights via mass surveillance in the name of “keeping us safe”, while the money grab after last decade’s financial crisis concentrated wealth and assets into fewer hands while entrenching financial feudalism and making the Federal Reserve and mega banks even more powerful.
Despite the success of this diabolical and intentional concentration of money and power, there’s still too much privacy, freedom and independent wealth around for the imperial oligarchy to feel comfortable. As such, the current pandemic is being used to put the finishing touches on whatever little political and economic freedom remains in these United States.

The lessons learned from prior crises are being rolled out simultaneously this time around while people remain incapacitated at home due to Covid-19. The 2008/09 financial collapse taught those in power they can get away with unprecedented, unaccountable theft during an economic and stock market crash. Similarly, 9/11 demonstrated people will relinquish civil liberties without much protest when immersed in a state of fear.
As such, a new round of society-wide economic pillaging has occurred and is ongoing, while at the same time an equally nefarious agenda to sell you on a completely new way of living — conveniently brought to you by technocratic big tech oligarchs — is in the works.
During moments of heightened confusion and fear, the public is sold and conditioned in subtle ways to accept some new reality they never asked for or wanted. The “smart city” appears to be a key oligarch bucket list item this time around, and I’ve started focusing more attention on it after watching the following exceptionally creepy clip from Reuters.

5G technology could soon become the foundation for greener, safer, more sustainable cities worldwide pic.twitter.com/0eQIEr1qvA

— Reuters Business (@ReutersBiz) April 30, 2020

There’s a desperate and deliberate attempt to emphasize how “smart cities” will benefit humanity and solve a plethora of problems, but the video’s creep factor simply cannot be ignored. Significantly, the plan here seems to be to just go ahead and create smart cities without asking permission from the residents who live there. Thanks to governor Andrew Cuomo, it appears New Yorkers will be big tech oligarchs’ first guinea pigs.

I think all this “smart” technology is really “spyware”. Designed to keep tabs on upcoming “dissidents” who refuse to: Stay at home, wear the mask all the time, get the vax, etc. We really need to get away from the “instant gratification” need. It’s slowly killing us and allowing our homes to be “bugged”. The “smart phones” are bad enough. Alexa, etc. are always listening. JMO

“Citizenship in a Republic” a passage from the speech given by Theodore Roosevelt in 1910
If a man’s efficiency is not guided and regulated by a moral sense, then the more efficient he is the worse he is, the more dangerous to the body politic. Courage, intellect, all the masterful qualities, serve but to make a man more evil if they are merely used for that man’s own advancement, with brutal indifference to the rights of others. It speaks ill for the community if the community worships those qualities and treats their possessors as heroes regardless of whether the qualities are used rightly or wrongly. It makes no difference as to the precise way in which this sinister efficiency is shown. It makes no difference whether such a man’s force and ability betray themselves in a career of money-maker or politician, soldier or orator, journalist or popular leader. If the man works for evil, then the more successful he is the more he should be despised and condemned by all upright and far-seeing men. To judge a man merely by success is an abhorrent wrong; and if the people at large habitually so judge men, if they grow to condone wickedness because the wicked man triumphs, they show their inability to understand that in the last analysis free institutions rest upon the character of citizenship, and that by such admiration of evil they prove themselves unfit for liberty.

I’ve really enjoyed this series. I like the serious tone and the feeling that we’re actually thinking through issues and trying to design a plan to fix the problem. A lot of other shows just report on news or do commentary, and much of it results in mocking the left. While that’s fun and all, you’re the ONLY one talking about what we can do to fight these people. I watched a very popular conservative news show the other day and for close to 15 minutes straight, all the presenter did was mock Jill Biden for wanting to be called Dr. Biden. That’s not helpful to our cause. After having an election stolen and being on the very verge of losing this country, I’m pretty much done with the jokes. It’s time to act.
One thought I had while watching this week was this: would it be possible to do something like a Craigslist or Angie’s List for conservative companies? I’m not tech savvy, so I don’t know what goes into something like that, but it’s a starting point for building and promoting a network of like-minded people. That way we keep money in our own circle and just maybe those businesses can help support conservative candidates for local elections.

I’ve tried bartering. It works for some things but not for most because it’s inefficient and it’s difficult to determine the value of each exchange. A more likely scenario for Going Gulch is that more and more working Americans will move into the heartland where taxes are lower and morals are higher. The coastal areas and inner cities will be left to rot like Detroit or recover like Hiroshima. It’s their choice.

I think it’s a both-and situation, not an either-or. Of course barter doesn’t work for everything. But where it does work it can accomplish some of the more important effects, namely the denial of financing to the anti-american government, and the development of tighter, more truly social networks of people who can depend on each other.

“Atlas Shrugged” is closer to 1200 pages long and it’s because it was written by a Russian. Have you ever known a Russian who was not verbose? To emphasize this point, I spent the last two days watching a Russian war movie made in 1964 called “The Alive and the Dead”. It’s considered a great work of art. Well, it’s a long piece of art, over three hours, with about 20 minutes of combat scenes sprinkled throughout it. The rest of it is talking, a lot of talking. Even that would not have been so bad except I don’t speak Russian and there weren’t any subtitles.
Bill, I say this because I think these episodes will attract more viewer if you limit them to no more than 30 minutes. Say more with less or speak faster.

Yep, pulled my copy off the shelf next to me when Bill mentioned the length. 1069 pages is my edition. I made a similar comment above (below).

Bill, you’ve received the strongest endorsement yet! My wife introduced me to Atlas Shrugged many years ago. She was assigned the book as a 10th Grade High School reading assignment (if that gives you any idea of how long ago, 2021 will be 30 years of marriage!). She has read it multiple times, I have read it twice myself. I played your show for her in the car today on a long drive, and mid-way through she said, “He is NAILING it!”. We both thought this was one of the finest descriptions we have ever heard. Both of us have now emailed the link to various friends in hopes they will watch (and possibly join). Kudos.

The sanctuary in Ann Rand’s book was predicated on technology to make it feasible. Wireless energy produced in sufficient abundance, an invisibility shield to isolate the group, highly advanced manufacturing capabilities, etc. All well beyond our current level of knowledge. In one sense, it was a science fiction book. It offered no practical way forward for us.
As a philosophy it is outstanding but it lacked a practical way to implement it. That is what we are faced with here. We can all make choices in our personal lives but without a mechanism to act with cohesion we have no power.
Bill’s points are all excellent and I am in full agreement. However, as he stated more than once, we are looking at many years or decades to see changes. This is a “long haul” proposition. Ask yourself if you can walk that road alone?
The Founders recognized that a group was necessary. They may have acted individually but they did it within an organization.
If we are serious about change, the first question to be asked is how do we develop the resources and necessary infrastructure to support that journey? Keep the experience of the Tea Party in mind.
Just my humble opinion.

First, it is very long winded. Bill and WITW were correct there.
Second, the characters are pretty difficult to accept, as they are. Dagny is a promiscuous robot more than a realistic woman. John Galt is a bit of a sauntering John Wayne go industry. James is a sleazy, greasy, guy that is almost as bad as the socialists of our times.
Then, the conversations are so very difficult to accept as real, human speech.
In this, WITW spoke well. The problems that I see with the critique is that it seems bank hard left and become a snarling political screed that (as so many do) pretends that Fascism is the opposite of Socialism. The author of the critique seems wholly unaware that the two are the twins of collectivism. On this head, the critique seems to blast the individual achievements of fictional characters because they were too young to achieve these feats (Calvin Graham,Clara Schumann Wolfgang Mozart Blaise Pascal, Nellie Bly, Enrico Fermi, and Jackson Oswalt).
The truths that are contained in the article are tainted by the political prism through which the author seems to view the work. Outside of that you can take it as the (likely) view of a great many people.
I chose to read Atlas Shrugged for an assignment back in 19*mumble something something* when I was in high school. I enjoyed the piece until a third of the way through. Then it became as dry as a chalk dust chaser with a tall glass of sand. I regained my will to read toward the latter portion when the pacing picks up a bit.
Being much, much, much, much older now (dang it) I think I’ve matured enough to sit down with the book and watch a Sylvester Stallone movie instead, while I sip my slightly chilled chalk dust.

Thanks 🙂 it helps to keep the book in the stay away category. We have no shortage of actually good books and short stories that coin down a good message while also excel a writing. I keep wondering why teachers feel the need to assign 1000+ page things before running out of those.

I wholeheartedly disagree. While it is true some parts are hard to wade thru with unneeded dialogue, the book itself is worth every effort to make it to the end. It was written as a WARNING to America. Most of the spine chilling dialogue written in 1956 and ’57 is right out of today’s headlines. There are a couple of incongruities in character actions, but they are necessary to get it to the final point. Again, if you haven’t read it, do. Most who do read it several times. There is a reason there is an entire philosophy based on her work.

I’m not a strong objectivist in the way that Rand was. My Faith tends toward inherent value of life. Rand would seem to suggest much to the contrary.
Still, everyone has his own taste in literature…And everything else.

On the contrary, the supreme value of life is at the very core of Rand’s moral, ethical, and legal views. Without life, nothing has any value at all.

I disagree with her statement “the concept of man as a heroic being, with his own happiness as the moral purpose of his life, with productive achievement as his noblest activity, and reason as his only absolute.”
Man is not moral, heroic or noble by birth. He must be taught by an Absolute greater than reason. Reason is used to do great evil and harm. It has in many cases throughout history been employed to cause death and destruction.

We’re going to disagree on that. Reason, properly applied, does not lead to evil. It’s only misapplication, mistaken or deliberate, that makes it appear that reason can be used for evil. Reason can make a gun, but it doesn’t lead to using that gun for murder.
As for “[Man] must be taught by an Absolute greater than reason,” there is no such thing. We’ll be stuck disagreeing about that forever. Man may not be “moral, heroic, or noble by birth” but neither his he immoral, cowardly, or debased. He is born a blank slate. Good and evil must be learned, and there’s no innate tendency for man to be either.

We certainly would. Reason is not good or evil. Reason is a means to an end. When applied to the good it does good. When applied to the bad, it achieves bad. Reason, in and of itself has no moral value.
We are born selfish and ignoble. Absolutely, we are. We may have some tendencies to better values, but we are flawed and imperfect by birth. No system of political or philosophical construct will fix that. We do wrong intentionally for self preservation and our own benefit. Many times we do this to some level of harm to others. It is human. It is not moral, noble or just.
Great minds have reasoned in error and to the harm of others. This unintentional harm cannot be said to be good, either. If unintentional harms from reason misapplied are okay, then the intentions of leftists have to be justified, too. I cannot justify the leftists. I cannot justify Rand’s objectivism, either.

When reason is used for its moral purpose, it will not lead to evil because evil is contrary to a moral life. Any other use of reason is actually misuse of reason, therefore not true reason.

“We are born selfish and ignoble. Absolutely, we are.”

Absolutely, we are not. If we’re born evil or with a tendency to evil, then there’s no point to trying to be good. It’s like having both your legs amputated and then being commanded to walk. The idea makes no sense.

We are born neither good nor evil. We learn and then make choices that result in good or evil. We’re not doomed to fail at morality. Simple observation of everyday people shows this.

This now goes deep. Is it wrong to be “selfish?” How are you defining “selfishness?” What is your evidence that we are born flawed? Why are we born “flawed?” By what standard? Why that standard and not another? What is the nature of good and evil? There are many more questions that have to be answered. I’m brash and long-winded enough to discuss this forever if you want.

Did someone have to teach you to lie? Did someone instruct you on the finer points of taking a toy from another child? No. You just did it as a child. You were wired to take what you wanted. People are not perfect. We are flawed.
Unless someone instructs you to do otherwise, you take what is not yours and lie. That is observable truth.
We are not born good. We are born with tendencies that will grow into great evil unless they are checked. That’s why we need good families. Boys without fathers are more likely to end up in prison. Why? Because they never have those broken and evil tendencies corrected.
Any challenge could be described as you have said that a moral endeavor from a fallen place must be. Any challenge is an uphill battle. That does not make it useless. It makes it all the more noble. It is every bit more worthy of the pursuit.
I did not read brashness into your words. You seem an amicable person.

“Unless someone instructs you to do otherwise, you take what is not yours and lie. That is observable truth.”

Except that a child doesn’t know that he’s doing anything wrong until he’s taught so. Nothing can be judged as morally wrong if it is not done deliberately. So a child must learn what lying and stealing are, and why they’re wrong. We’re born blank slates and we must learn what’s right and wrong and why it matters. Until we’ve fully grasped that, we’re not capable of doing wrong because we can’t intend to do wrong. Without that intent, those actions are morally neutral.

Consider that our legal system requires intent for an action to be deemed a crime. Those not capable of intent are not guilty. That doesn’t make what they’ve done less harmful, but it does make it not criminal. No intent, no wrong.

Maybe “brash” was the wrong word. 🙂 I am often condemned simply for speaking confidently about my views. There’s a general belief, especially on the left, that we’re supposed to never be certain of anything and to always speak as if we’re apologizing for taking a firm stand on anything. That’s not me.

Wrong is not a measurement of intent. Wrong is a moral situation. It is a fundamental reality.
If your vehicle is moving in the wrong direction without your knowledge, you are still moving farther from your intended destination.
If, for instance, that child we hypothetically raise has a toy rended from his grip, he cries and seeks the assistance of a stronger authority (mom or dad) to right the…yes…wrong. Instinctively, the child realizes that the act was not acceptable and that someone should correct it. Instinctively children that do the harm lie to cover their guilt. They flee the consequence of something they have done. Those that do not are considered antisocial ill adjusted.
If, again, a Yanomami man raised in the Venezuelan rain forests walked among us and killed a man for taking his picture, we do not deem the photographer worthy of death for not understanding the ethics of the Yanomami tribes any more than we respect the despicable violence of the tribesman because he is ignorant of our laws concerning murder.
In the same way, right is right regardless of the social inputs. If a person has a natural inclination to humility and modesty, she is not wrong because a colony of nudists tell her that she is vainly covering her beauty with cultural constructs.
Right and wrong are real terms with real values. They must or our arguments against the theft of our vote are merely the ramblings of people that had a less effective means of gaining power.
I think we agree that is not the case.

You’re correct, wrong is not a measure of intent. Intent is a measure of wrong. Your child example ignores that the child could not possibly have learned yet that what he has done is wrong. If he doesn’t know it’s wrong, how can anyone possibly say that he has (to use the religious term) sinned?

To say that an ignorant child has committed a sin when he can’t possibly know that he’s done so is just about the most morally repugnant thing I’ve ever heard. The moral system that claims this is sick. The “god that commands it is an evil monster. There can be no mistakes under such a system. Every action is either morally right or morally wrong. Do you consider your honest mistakes sinful? What a sad way to live.

We agree that it’s not the case that “our arguments against the theft of our vote are merely the ramblings of people that had a less effective means of gaining power.” But right and wrong acts, like every action, occur in a context. For the child, the context includes the crucial fact that he has no idea that he’s doing wrong. If that’s the case, he cannot have committed a transgression. Our legal system takes intent and knowledge into account. The truly ignorant – those with some kind of defect that leaves them incapable of knowing right from wrong, not merely ignorance of the law – are not held liable for what others would go to jail for.

Your tribesman has done something horrible, but not all horrible acts are crimes. If he could not have known at the time he killed the photographer that it was wrong to do so, he needs to be separated from society for our protection and taught better – maybe have the crime defined as, perhaps, (in)voluntary manslaughter, but he cannot be guilty of first-degree murder.

If you drop the context surrounding an action, you will necessarily make a mistake in your reasoning about that act. Saying that the child has sinned doesn’t follow from the full, or at least sufficient, knowledge of the circumstances. The same is true of the tribesman and first-degree murder.

Your describing a monstrous morality. I’m glad your (or any) god doesn’t exist to enforce such evil.

Euthanasia is proposed as a “reasonable” answer to over population and alleviating public debt. Reason, in this case, is employed to say that the elderly, the physically disabled, and the mentally handicapped ought to be sterilized and, at some point, put to death.
A very well educated Oliver Wendell Holmes Junior, a Supreme Court Justice, trained in reason and well studied in logic proposed this in this way:
“It is better for all the world, if instead of waiting to execute degenerate offspring for crime, or to let them starve for their imbecility, society can prevent those who are manifestly unfit from continuing their kind . . . Three generations of imbeciles are enough.”
Notice the idea that presents this horrible plan? “It is better for all the world…”
Better? How is it better? Economically? He may have incorporated that argument but his seems to be mostly social advancement. Murder is, in his reasoning, morally excusable because the trouble makers get slaughtered and/or sterilized by a benevolent society built on reason and pseudo ethics.
Hitler chose these words:
“The demand that defective people be prevented from propagating equally defective offspring is a demand of clearest reason and, if systematically executed, represents the most humane act of mankind. It will spare millions of unfortunates undeserved sufferings, and consequently will lead to a rising improvement of health as a whole.” 
“Clearest reason”, “the most humane act of mankind”? These were moral words, used in a statement of reason…For “moral’ ends.
This is reason with “good” intentions that depend on something other than concrete terms of right and wrong, good and evil. It has killed more people than any other ideology man has produced.

Holmes was, as you know, flat-out wrong. (As was,it goes without saying, Hitler.) Reason must use the facts of reality to reach correct conclusions and both of those men either ignored or didn’t know all the facts. In logic, any conclusion at all can be reached when you start from a false statement.

Having a reason for a statement isn’t the same as having reasoned properly to reach that conclusion. Thinking that isn’t in according with reality can, at best, occasionally reach the morally right conclusion, but only by merest accident. That’s not using reason.

Now, as far as I know, Holmes did nothing to implement any of those ideas. Therefore he’s not guilty of any wrongdoing. (Thought and its expression are never morally wrong because it is only if thought is left free that we can accomplish anything that maintains or improves life. Only actions can be “sinful.”) Hitler, on the other hand, well, I needn’t tell you.

Your morality doesn’t fit the facts of reality, which makes sense since you claim it comes from somewhere other than reality. It’s not acceptable for the conduct of life on earth.

It was the rejection of Faith that makes “life” nothing more than a limited phenomenon in Rand’s philosophy.
Life is a gift from GOD, in my Faith, and does not cease because my mortal body ceases to provide value to an economy or society. Rand’s philosophy doesn’t account for this.
If happiness is the prime moral objective then, of course, a great many things are allowable to that philosophy which I cannot call moral at all.

That’s not what Rand argues at all. The purpose of life, the prime moral objective, is simply a flourishing life. Doing evil prevents that. Rand’s idea is not that we must “provide value to an economy or society.” It’s precisely that idea she argues against. It’s collectivist to think that we owe anything to something that’s “larger than” ourselves. “Economy” and “society” are concepts, mental abstractions that exist only because they make thinking and communication more efficient. They don’t exist outside of that, so it makes no sense – it would be morally wrong – to claim that we are just part of some collective like that. Collectives don’t exist.

I don’t know what you mean by “life is a limited phenomenon.” Of course it is – every living thing eventually dies. Life ends, therefore it is limited. It’s straightforward.

Happiness, properly defined, is exactly the goal of morality. But true happiness cannot be obtained by doing evil. To think so is to handicap your mind so that it becomes impossible to attain.

Happiness is the goal of your morality, too. It’s just that for you “real” happiness is only attainable after death. My morality enables happiness to be attained in life.

I took that quote from her words.
That we owe something to GOD is the point that conflicts with your (her) counterpoint. Because there is a higher power and overarching truth, we owe our moral efforts to that Truth. I understand that you do not agree.
I believe that GOD provides life because HE is life. I believe that life is eternal but is given and taken by the One that is life. So, I disagree that life is necessarily limited. The present circumstance is. That is why a focus on the circumstance alone leads to the wrong moral decisions. We all do it. I am no better than anyone else. Still, it is a fact.
I also disagree with the notion that happiness is not attainable in this life.

I’m curious where that quote appears in Rand’s work, because it contradicts the very foundation of her ethics, which is that the purpose of life is (an ever-improving) life. I don’t recall ever seeing anything like it and I’ve studied her work pretty extensively.

And you’ll have to convince me that GOD exists. There is no evidence for it.

Atlas Shrugged has “an about the author” section in which Rand’s statement appears. I graduated in the early nineties and bought the book new for the mind numbing English report.
Convincing anyone of GOD seems odd to me. I see intelligent design in everything. I don’t suppose that this laptop that I am typing on sprouted naturally on the backs of crystals. Nor would I believe that untold numbers of flora and fauna simply found themselves existing one fine afternoon by a lovely accident. Those who do are free to believe it. I do not ask them to convince me. I seek the science out and am less than convinced.
I do not suppose myself greater in intellect than the untold numbers of those that have formulated productive societies on the merits of Judeo-Christian ethics, derived from none other than the Bible.
Still, I am no enemy of those that disagree with my Faith. Faith is an individual phenomenon. The instant that I bludgeon someone with the perspectives that I hold dear, the value to the victim is greatly reduced, and is, therefore, compromised. Faith is shared, not enforced. I enjoy the notion that “non-religious” folks could extend the same courtesies, as science has many arguments among its elites and novices, yet, we haven’t socially or legally banned its banter in schools, work places, and public centers. Religion, being inextricably interweaved with cultural and world history, has been to a terrible degree.
I am glad to have these conversations, Michael. It really is a break from the stress of the present state of our country. Thank you for that. These grey strands are not slowing their march across my balding scalp. At least I have good folks to chat with.
Cheers, my friend.

LOL, the best cure from the “intelligent design” theory is to study biology. Cartainly it is actively avoided by the prophets to the same level at some time they kenw better the Jupiter can’t have moons so refused to take a look at them in the newly invented telescope.

I don’t think we’re talking about the same quote. You mean the “heroic” quote. I meant something else that I can’t remember well enough to find in the previous comments. No matter. The “heroic” quote is about men living properly in accordance with reality, that it’s a goal and it’s possible, not that man is by nature like that, and I agree with it – we can achieve that moral state.

It just struck me what bothers me so much about what you’ve been arguing and it bugs me that I didn’t think of it earlier. What you describe eliminates the possibility of free will. The will is either free or it isn’t. There’s no such thing as “free will but with a tendency toward doing evil.” Such a will is not free. It doesn’t leave you with a fair chance to choose between good and evil. You’re hindered right out of the womb, if not before that, before you can ever do anything at all. Again, only a moral monster would create being with such a handicap.

And why do we have this supposed tendency toward evil? Because of something our mythical ancestors did thousands of years before we even existed. That’s another abomination, to hold a person responsible for the actions of another.

No, I want nothing to do with such a morality.

As for “intelligent design,” that’s a conclusion one can only reach through not understanding the science. When you speak of flora and fauna appearing randomly you confess that you don’t know the science at all. Natural processes (above the quantum level, though there are questions about that) are not random. Also, just because it takes intelligence to create some things that are complex doesn’t mean that all complex things must have intelligence behind them – amino acids and other biological chemicals form on their own out in space, no intelligence needed. And the universe and all that is in it is messy as hell; no designer, especially a “perfect” one, would have done such shoddy work.

Attributing the things you don’t understand to a god is the logical fallacy called the “the god of the gaps,” and it takes the form “I don’t understand this, therefore no one can understand this, therefore a god did it.” It’s a claim that one’s ignorance is some form of knowledge (or that one can draw a valid conclusion from a lack of knowledge, i.e. from nothing), which is absurd on its face.

It’s OK to say “I don’t know” or to accept that science hasn’t figured everything out yet. The scientific method, like morality when done correctly, always finds truth. It just doesn’t find all of it right away. A consequence (pun intended) of traveling through time as we must.

I’m really enjoying this discussion, too. It’s good to exercise the brain like this from time to time. I also have no interest in changing anyone’s mind; if they happen to do so, it’s a happy accident. As long as no one is trying to force me to do or believe anything, all is well.

“Because of something our mythical ancestors did thousands of years before we even existed. That’s another abomination” Well, it certainly would be. However it is not what happened in the garden, if I guess correctly the myth you refer here.
https://cdn.pbc.org/Main_Service/1997/11/15/4558.pdf
is a fair explanation and I think it should set the actual moral straight for you and everyone.
(if short on time, can just skip the first part and start at hiding.. or blaming…)

Nope. We are “born in sin” not because of anything we did – we couldn’t have done anything before we were born – but because of what Adam and Eve did. We are by nature “fallen creatures” and there’s nothing we can do about it. That’s what Christianity claims.

It’s absurd.

Should you be guilty from the moment you first exist because of something your great-grandfather did? Something your brother did? Your neighbor? A stranger? Of course not, that’s insane. It’s a collectivist assignment of guilt to a group even though almost no one in the group committed the offense. It’s the kind of thing we’re fighting against. You’ve heard things like it elsewhere – Jews, blacks, men, women, whites, and more all condemned merely for being one of a group rather than for anything any one of them did (or, more accurately, didn’t do). If one did something wrong, all are guilty because all are exactly the same.

Well, am I Michael Piz or am I “a white male?” Am I evil because I committed evil or because one of my ancestors did? No, I will not have anything to do with that thinking.

“Christianity” — there is no such thing to start with. Especially if you want to define it as a group with the same idea on something. 🙂 Just try to put together 2 folks from different churches with some ch… related in name, you can observe more quarrel than any of them put against someone outside such a church.
Also most claim to follow Jesus and his teachings, but are built on the exact opposite of those. (the Roman Chatolic church being probably the most obvious example, JC spent monst of the time on earth to quarrel with the pharisei and the written law; the whole new testament is supposedly replacement of the written law with the one written by the heart — and RC replaces that with their own scroll called chatekism created by their descendants of the pharisei…)
“born in sin” is certainly an absurd characterisation as you put it, but back in time Adam did chose to split from god, despite offered other options, and we the descendants just keep doing the same. Not because of how we;re born, but again, as a choice, excercising the free will we were *actually* given.
“guilt” is also a concept coined mostly against JC, who came to cure the sick and sent disciples to spread the message of *joy*.
If you look for actual christian activity (vs. one in just name), that is a good compass: look where attached people have and spread joy. While those who do the opposite, well, work for the opposite. Starting with all the cults seeking “sin” everywhere and explaining it into people — instead of curing those who did discover some activity they had not match their own morality (aka the law written into the heart) and help them walking the way to undo the damage and gain true forgiveness. (the movie Levity provides a great demonstration of the concept.)
The concept of collective guilt is a complete oxymoron in the original teachings. So yeah, you are right in your discovery, feel free to call yourself a true christian — especially if you can spread the message in the way that can lift the hearts.
But also please make sure you don’t just put everyone under the same stock umbrella. as that would also be an instance of assigning collective sin 🙂

Well, no one need worry about me spreading the wrong religious ideas – I think they’re all wrong. I don’t do religion, of any kind or to any extent.

As this discussion isn’t about any one brand of Christianity, I’ve just been referring to what I think is the most common interpretation of the Eden story, that we’re all born with, to pick a common term, “original sin” because of Adam’s and Eve’s sin in the garden. You’re describing something different than that so our interpretations don’t line up. I don’t really know anything about your interpretation here so I can’t intelligently discuss it.

It’s fine. 🙂
I dropped a link in the post 2 before this with the interpretation, you can take a look. It presents a very diffrent perspective over what you say to be the “most common”. I really can;t evaluate commonness, as for example the roman ch. church as mased on their chatekism, and on paper their 1 billion or how many members believe that. It’s so shocking that when I meet someone who claim to be in that church on that topic, and he majority is not even aware of its existance and the few who are aware just vaguely align with some stances. But having said that still a huge amount of people is mislead to the interpretation you stated and it keeps ruining their life. Not even being aware.
So it’s worth pointing out.

The quote I responded to was that which you asked about in the first few comments. It came from the 1992 release of Atlas Shrugged, purchased in the Muscle Shoals mall around the same year. It can be found in the about the author comments.
Free will is not a matter of being free of circumstance. It is a matter of being free to choose a course of action within the circumstance. We do not choose, prior to our birth who our parents are, yet, you do not curse science for the function of genetics. You do not believe that the child will forever be a victim of the parents. That child will grow into an adult and be responsible for his or her own actions. This is free will. Though our beginning is not great, we can do great things. Though we tend (extremely obviously) toward selfishness, we can reject the actions that trait would call for and overcome it. Human nature is, curiously, the nature…of humans. It is the behavior which has been observed over the course of human history. It is why we say “History repeats itself.”
It is not a reference to a temporal loop but a cognitive loop.
Free will is not the lack of consequence to ourselves and others. It is and always has been the right to fail, with all of the good and bad consequences that must come with the freedom of choice.
An adherence to the “moral superiority of man to GOD” (and that is absolutely what you imply) is quite an interesting assertion. When man had the science to invent a club, he killed with it. When he advance to a bow and arrow, he murdered with it. When metallurgy allowed swords, he slashed mankind out of the world of the living with it. When guns came along in the scientific realm man shot his fellow down with it and when a bomb was invented he obliterated mankind from a comfortable distance. It is an odd assertion to look to GOD as the monster when mankind murders unborn children in the womb and abandons the elderly for their lack of utility. No, the “moral monster” is not GOD. It is man that contaminated GOD’s creation with the afore mentioned filth. So that my point may be made all the clearer, we still morally justify most or all of this, within the realm of mankind, as necessary evil…But demand of GOD that HE absorb the countless ages of this filth without the benefit of necessary actions.
“As for “intelligent design,” that’s a conclusion one can only reach through not understanding the science. When you speak of flora and fauna appearing randomly you confess that you don’t know the science at all.”
I am not cautious to answer this in all honesty. In the same way that you preclude what you cannot (by your own admission) know, because science has not found a way to know yet, you preclude those who believe differently from being granted any intellectual respect. If science is an ever expanding body of knowledge and never truly exclusive of new knowledge, why then are you terrified of simply respecting Creationism as a theory? More to the point, you claim that creation is “sloppy”. I ask, compared to what? You mock my expression that creation is no mistake but admit to a repeatable study of nature based on structures which have led to massive amounts of life, a balanced solar system which we literally set our watches to (kind of the point, wouldn’t you say?), and a stability which has allowed us to accumulate the knowledge of a tiny portion of it all. No, I think in biology, microbiology, anatomy and physiology (1 & 2) I picked up a little bit of a little piece of what much greater intellects have learned. Those intellects all look forward to a time when their limited knowledge is deemed crude and antiquated by future generations. I dare say, some day even you might be thought to have missed some finer points.
Placing intellectual judgements on people based upon their Faith is as feeble a fallacy as any rhetorical no-no. I’m no Einstein but I know that he spoke of GOD. Pascal, whom I mentioned earlier in another quote, believed in GOD. He would not be called a mental slouch in any crowd.Francis Bacon is in the crowd of people that believe in GOD, as are Schroedinger, Planck, Newton, Pasteur, Eccles, Faraday, Heisenberg, Kelvin, Boyle, Copernicus, Kepler, Maxwell, and Millikan. All, clearly morons compared to those that believe as you do…Or otherwise known as some of the greatest minds in history. It is a comfortable trap to fall into to believe that ours is the only intellectual venue worthy of being called intelligent. I have studied in three different colleges and three different sciences. All of them have my respect. None of them have dissuaded me of my Faith. I have no inclination to dissuade you of your faith.
Science does not always find truth. It finds an array of observances which it utilizes to formulate theories and, if they are lucky, scientists can structure the words of scientific laws…Which may be undone by future scientists.
If ever you are in New England I would consider it a great and rewarding privilege to sit and talk over a beer, perhaps two. There are those that suspect that minds of differing thought may, by some mystical power, get along famously if given the opportunity.
Be well, Michael.

This was an excellent and invigorating exchange between you two; however, I must agree with the D. Plorable‘s philosophical position. Fundamentally, as I understand the behaviors of humans, this whole discussion can be summed up in a few words: selfishness, which Rand promotes as an ideal quality and motivator for people, is actually a quality that destroys individual lives at the expense of others. Selfishness, if left unchecked, turns one’s attention inward to the exclusion of others; therefore, any society based upon such motivation will eventually crumble — consider, as an example, the self-destructive nature of the United States (and other Western societies) since the burgeoning of hedonism in the 1950’s and 1960’s.
Mankind is not the end-all-be-all of his own existence. If so, then he will ultimately die alone, while attempting to focus on himself … in the dark.

Thank you, David. I agree that self interest is good in the sense that we ought to be responsible for our behavior and self sufficiency. As you have stated, though, with no higher goal than the pleasure of self fulfillment (by whatever means) the end will always be selfish.
I am a free market Capitalist. I believe that a man should pay his own way, as much as he is humanly capable of doing so. I also give to Saint Jude’s. This is not a conflict in my philosophy because my end goal is not material. I will also add that I am not claiming to be a sainted, righteous figure. I am a broken, fallen man that, through learning, has been taught a better way than the ways which the mortal, the carnal side desires.
The human body desires sugar because it is easy energy. We eat sugary foods and enjoy the taste because our bodies are designed to find the easy route to anything. Our dopamine response drives the urge to eat more sugar. Massive amounts of sugar are far from good for us. We have to be taught to avoid the destructive power of this desire or pay the penalty of obesity.
Our reproductive systems are designed to bring offspring into the word. I read somewhere that sexual contact feels good psychologically and physically (Yes, that’s a joke.) This is, at least in part, due to dopamine responses. Sexual excesses have brought us divorce rates skyrocketing, fatherless children, and diseases that we don’t discuss around dinner time. We have to drive beyond that pleasure center and operate on a level which transcends the physiological feedback or we end up with an unpleasant doctor’s visit and a broken home.
We tend to like lethargy. As humans we really dig not having to dig…or lift…or work in any sense of that word. The storage of energy, the accumulation of stuff (adipose tissue) is really cool to the survival portion of our brain. So, even when we work out our body looks to economize our actions and “cheat” at working out. This will result in less benefit to our bodies. Not working out at all can result in less bone density, loss of muscle mass, premature aging, and immune system weakness. So, we have to be taught to do these sweaty, uncomfortable, sometimes unsightly things (I’m 46 and I look like an octogenarian with a severe flop sweat when I jog) that help us.
A healthy work ethic notwithstanding , a moral detachment from hedonistic pleasure and egotistical drive, on some level, has to exist to anchor any human to a functional state of humility and to a sense of proportion.
I take nothing from free markets is this belief.

Rand had no problem with anyone giving to charity, or paying your deadbeat brother Philip if that’s something you value. She would never come between someone and their own individual values and what made them happy. She only argued that engaging in altruism is wrong if it’s coerced or performed as the result of incorrect reasoning which undermined one’s rational self-interest.

One of Rand’s mistakes (and there are quite a few) was to try to reclaim the term “selfish.” She doesn’t advocate what you describe. The better term is “rational self-interest,” which takes into account both the longer (in time) and broader (in scope) context of one’s life. “[Destroying] individual lives at the expense of others” is not in one’s rational self-interest at all. Rather, voluntary cooperation to mutual advantage is best for everyone.

Man is the “end-all-be-all of his own existence.” But harming others while believing that doing so improves one’s own life goes against one’s long-term and broad interests and well-being, as well as everyone else’s. It’s not possible to live the best possible life by doing that.

Believe what you will, but inevitably, a secular-only society will result in the abolishing of any sort of freedom of religion. I mention this in light of another of your recent posts that express an intent to describe such a society/government that is solely secular. Consider this brief discussion of recently discovered facts:
https://youtu.be/MwDF3KdhMZQ
Like the imposition of religion, the imposition of secularism is the antithesis of a truly-free society.

If you mean the “principles” post last week, I’m not suggesting there that religion be abolished. Like the Constitution, I’m merely stating the ideas without any reference to religion because no such reference is necessary since all the right principles can be derived from the world as we see it. I have no quarrel with religion in and of itself – other than wasting people’s time, IMNHO, it’s pretty harmless. My quarrel is only with people who try to force theirs on me.

As for “secularism,” I don’t even know what that’s supposed to be. I certainly wouldn’t impose it on anybody. I’m as anti-imposing-things as it gets.

Perhaps I misunderstood your “principles” post last week. Please accept my apology.
As for “secularism,” I essentially define it to be humanism, which places humanity at prominence above everything/everyone else in the universe. This is a rather naive definition, but it works for my small mind.
That said, I am much more pessimistic about humanity’s ability to derive “the right principles […] from the world as we see it.” Without the acceptance of something greater than themselves that is not made by humans, people have, throughout history, fallen prey to the predatory nature of tyrants.
There was good reason for the Founders of America to reference “nature’s God” and “Creator” in the first few sentences of the Declaration of Independence — it is obvious to me and many that there is something greater than us that is useful to guide our thinking and behavior:

When, in the course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume, among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the laws of nature and of nature’s God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

Waste of time? I must respectfully disagree.

I’m going to politely disagree with the original post by Rod a little bit…you’re right in some sense, but overall I think you’ve fallen prey to the same mindset that keeps us where we are.

We have the same technologies that the other side uses to suppress the truth and keep people ignorant. We have the same manufacturing and distribution available to us that makes the Amazons of the world rich and (seemingly) untouchable. We just haven’t tried to isolate ourselves yet.

For example, we have the ability to use VPNs to minimize our online activity traceability and help create that umbrella of invisibility. I haven’t implemented one yet, but I will be shortly! It isn’t everything, but it’s one block in the foundation. We could easily develop wireless mesh networks among local patriots that we carefully protect. We can make connections based on reference only, and protect each other. Organizing ourselves doesn’t require making an entirely new internet. It just means knowing the signs of our enemies, knowing how to go about our lives with some fences up, and making decisions we don’t compromise from.

We can buy what we want, from whoever we want, including and especially our local small business patriots. We aren’t forced to use Amazon and Walmart. (We’ll be giving up our Amazon Prime Subscribe-and-Save of over forty items that we conveniently get delivered every month or two…ouch!) Our individual spending can make a big difference toward strengthening other patriots, and we’re going to figure out how to do that effectively.

We can shrink our presence on social media platforms on a grand scale, if we’ll make the harder choice and not take the lazy way. Is mewe the only option for social media? Maybe for right now… But are there brilliant patriots out there who can build a new social media networking system that facilitates our choices? Of course there are…we just have to FIND them and FUND them (but that’s step 2 or 3). Even moving millions of people over to a new platform like mewe DOES have the type of impact on the big tech world that we want it to have. They didn’t get huge just because it was their destiny. 😉

We can all work to add solar power with backup batteries to our houses, as another example, to help insulate ourselves from being blacked-out by anti-american government actions, foreign interference, and intentional denial-of-services meant to keep us subdued.

We patriots haven’t even begun to explore things like using alternate currencies (like bitcoin) and other methods of commerce. We just THINK we’re bound to using the same methods as we’ve always used, because we’re good citizens and all that.

So my point is just that I believe we have everything we need to really start down this path in earnest. Yes, as you mentioned, it is the long-term approach, and the major impacts will take time. But also don’t forget that we are, in reality, every bit of 100 million strong, and probably more. Is everyone going to make the hard choices? No. But a lot of us will…

Bill, maybe if we think about the barn-raising in terms of an “investment” and not as an exchange of goods/labor? Investments are made for future gain or return. The IRS only taxes certain earnings from certain investment instruments that is calculated at the time you cash in the investment, and those are much more limited in scope.

Since the return is intangible and a benefit can’t be quantified (how much interest or earning did you make on raising a barn for someone who only reciprocates in roughly equal value?), then I think it won’t be anywhere near as sketchy. If we could simply change our language to be investment-based, this would become much easier to keep invisible.

And i’m fine with the length of these videos. I think it gives you time to relax and get the ideas out, rather than be pressured to hit a time mark…

You can give a non-taxable gift of up to $10,000 per person per year. If your labor can be valued at less than that, call it a gift. No taxes.

Yes. I think a thoughtful withdrawal of support for the parasites makes sense. For example, I am leaving California for a state with no income tax and minimal other taxes.
I also think the withdrawal will be facilitated by the following.
1 – Creating alternatives to Facebook and Google to facilitate the exchanges which Bill proposes.. (Although I have minimal experience with it, Parker comes to mind.) Very very difficult? Yes. But necessary because my interpretation of what is necessary to make what Bill is proposing work is a free flow of information and communication. And even more than they already have, both FB an G are going to work closely with the incoming parasites.
2 – Some method of obtaining legitimate news. I’ve had reasonable experience with The Epoch Times and sometimes, Newsmax.

I’ve been a fan for a long time — but I don’t think Bill has done anything as vital and important as this series. Close to an hour seems like a perfect length for an appropriate deep dive. Thank you, Bill. Your significance in this fight can’t be overstated.

I agree with Bill in his analysis of the makers and the takers…. and with that which Mr Kribs suggests in his comments posting. I would suggest that members look into the prepper off grid arrangements that are available… and if you wish to be proactive stop using credit in any form…. use cash (it’s anonymous)… and ask if there is a price break for using cash… if it’s for a service of some sort most trades people will accommodate.
One further note…. Constitutional money is identified in the plain and unambiguous language of the U. S. Constitution itself. Article I, Section 8, clause 4 contains the following clause: The Congress shall have power to coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures. (They are referring to gold and silver.)

I am forwarding ideas from a new member’s email to me:
“We need to have new social network platforms that aren’t censored and controlled by leftist billionaires. We need a non leftist Amazon, eBay and Microsoft. We’re dependent on all this electronic stuff that is being used to condition us. We need platforms free of the crap.”
Are there any already in existence? I know there’s Parler and I’m trying that. I also signed up for MeWe, but not enough people I know are on them. I would love to start giving the business I give to Amazon to another company.

We signed up for mewe and parler also, and rumble for videos. And the people will migrate, just be patient and keep spreading the word. We’re in this for the long haul. Don’t forget about email…it used to be so important to us! We’re just addicted to the instant media fix… Bill reminded us it wasn’t going to be easy, and that not everyone is going to have the backbone for this.

We’re also thinking about dropping off of amazon, which we love, as you mentioned. To substitute, we are talking about how we can support local businesses more, even if we have to pay a little more. (Putting our money where our mouths are, and supporting patriots in the process.) We know we are also able to find online businesses that are patriot-owned, for those things we need to buy online.

And don’t overlook the buying power of your local patriot small business. If you buy cleaning supplies from a local patriot store, for example, ask them if they can get something else you buy a lot of…maybe diapers or whatever.

And this doesn’t even touch the back-scratching pay-it-forward help-each-other-out mentality Bill talked about and that we should all be thinking about.

Parler is the new kid on the block with around 12 million users. An effective free speech alternative to Twitter. I understand that Parler will be adding a group functionality next year called Dens, which will allow Facebook users to move to Parler too. Parler has the most users and higher growth momentum compared to MeWe and Gab.

You definitely need to keep this series going. I’ve gotten at least 3 new members because of it. Now we need the smartest of us to come up with ideas to accomplish these things. When you have the best ideas, you need to formulate them into an action plan.

Oh, I know. was just running sounds through my head, and only recently woke up after my night job. Not always my sharpest.

1) I enjoyed listening to the series so far. A new channel will usually be a bumpy ride at first – no worries.
2) I agree with other commenters that the episodes are a bit long. When you have a lot of important stuff to say, the tendency is to try to include it ALL. (I’m guilty of that myself)
Concrete feedback for improvement with an example is helpful. To practice what I preach, if I were chief bottlewasher in charge, I would break up “Know your enemy” like this:
===
Monday: The theme this week is “Know your enemy”. Give an overview what what will be discussed each day. Avoid the temptation to drill down too far. It should be more like a movie trailer.
Tues: “Know your enemy – Mainstream media.” Drill down into the details.
Wed. “Know your enemy – Career politicians”
Thurs “Know your enemy – Bureaucrats”
etc.
Friday. “Know your enemy – What can be done?” (The last episode of the theme would always be what to do next. ) Summary of the episodes of this weeks theme. Bill’s take on what can be done by MB2A supporters to address the problem. If you have ideas on how to help, join BW.com – we’d love to hear from you.
===
Keep up the good work.

I think a top “reliable” news story related to this movement would be nice. Maybe keep reminding people they may have to do their own research on their state (as in running for office), etc. Maybe a reminder that people need to do something & you can’t tell them what to do, but maybe some suggestions on here just to get the brain going. I think the time is good at 30-45 mins. Thank you.

Bill, having followed your reports for about ten years, I agree with your assessment that you are a thinker and idea guy.
This week’s episodes have all been worthy of your time and effort.
This is precisely why it was utterly vital that Trump be re-elected and clearly the evil doers/criminals concluded that he must not be.
The starting point to your propositions this week is to have a leader(Trump?), not only who is a persona, but has the ability to also get things done. In that sense he was the rare bird.
Any of your other followers who built and ran a successful business understand “getting it done” (on time or sooner and at a profit) and “problem solving” (from personnel to finances)are the key tools.

I think keeping Trump in office only gives us a few years “breathing room” that we should use to our max advantage. Otherwise we’ll be sitting right here in the same predicament in 4 years.

Tbh I see no progress whatsoever in the 4 Trump years on draining the swamp or cutting back the anti-american forces. Yeah, they were not at the helm so could not initiate all their plans yet, but it is just kicking the can down the road.
Also, US of A is supposedly build on people and not on the president. You can’t expect improvements just happen from the government. The situation will not improve until people decide to come out of their comfort zone and start to do something relevant. For a change.

Trump, for reasons I cannot understand, missed an opportunity to roll back socialism in 2017/2018 when Republicans held potus+house+senate.

He did not hold the House and the Senate. The RINO’s had the balance of power and voted with the left. John McCain told everyone he was voting for the Obama care repeal & replacements and switched side at the last moment. He did that several times negating their Senate majority.
What Trump needed was a House and Senate majority that was maga, tea party & freedom caucus but early on the latter two were cautions of his policy platform, particularly on trade. Trump won those arguments and now has their support.
The traitor McCain is gone and most of the less duplicitous RINO’s have also left. Some who were just too trusting of the FBI like Paul Ryan and Trey Gowdy are also gone but I suspect Gowdy is working on something big behind the scenes. Working for Trump on a FBI replacement.
Also there was a lot Trump got done that was set up to activate on certain conditions occurring: another bank bust, various lines of attack by foreign actors, etc. Conditions that have just not occurred. Some successes are boring. Power grid hardening against EMP has occurred under the radar. New Visa rules that negate 60% of the dreamer problem by using there USA legal and education records in immigration applications. Some dream act people were genuinely trapped. Unable to stay or leave or get legal by any means. Their birth countries would not accept them back. Trumps fixed that.
Often Trumps silly tweets are misdirection or distraction so the left and the RINO’s don’t read past the summary page on legislation. The god stuff is never mentioned in the summary.

I’m not sure how much this option is already considered, but I would think crypto-currency platform & transactions would solve a lot of the issues with keeping the government out of our economy. My favorite crypto so far is Celo, and each account links to a phone number.

The main issue is, people will still have to earn dollars in the normal taxable system and transfer it to the crypto-market. After that, we can buy, sell and barter with crypto rather anonymously.

So you say the first step is to create the next amendment in the constitution that forbids congress to mess with currencies the people can use?

My idea is that we can make crypto-currency accounts that have no personal info on them, and wire funds to those accounts with Zcash or some other untraceable means. People can see the accounts but the IRS won’t know who they belong to. We can then use private emails like protonmail to trade without being traced.

You know, cryptocurrencies are forbidden in many countries. In some any form of cryptography. What would stop PTB from just doing that?
Also the tax agencies usually have the power to just assume your income when they feel like.

Just to point out some points along the main thought line, not going into the territory of how “cryptocurrency” is not actual money and those not fallen yet only kept around because temporary convertibility — or belief in it.

We don’t need a secession or a hidden enclave – a “Reshuffling” might be more effective. Red COUNTIES could coalesce into a contiguous group of red states. Jefferson and Union Counties in Oregon are attempting to leave Oregon and join with “Greater Idaho”. This requires the approval of both legislatures in Oregon and Idaho and the approval of the U.S. Congress, but with enough legal and political horsepower and momentum over time it might be do-able.
The result would be blue counties (Los Angeles, San Francisco, New York, etc.) geographically isolated and completely dependent on red counties for basic needs like food and water. It would take time and effort, but would achieve precisely what Bill is calling for.

This is the kind of “pie in the sky” commentary and plan than will never happen. It depends on totality of the populations involved, including the leftists, to agree to it. They will never agree. We should reject this kind of suggestion as ineffective and impractical. We need actions we can do without the approval of anyone. If enough of us take those self motivated actions, then, in concert, we have impact.

Yes, it’s blatantly obvious that a lot of the state legislatures, mayors, city councils, AG’s, Gov’s, etc. are corrupt in many states. All must be removed by whatever means works. Going through them to “cure” the sickness is a fools errand. It’s like going to a drug dealer and asking them to stop dealing drugs because it’s best for the community.

I must agree with Michael Cannon‘s reply, and add the following, which negate long-term success:

  • Migration from State-to-State will still occur.
  • Leftism is a mental disease that is contagious regardless of geographical borders; inevitably, more border restructuring will be required to isolate the cancer.
  • It is undetermined how much slicing-and-dicing would be required to achieve the proper uniform representation — perhaps there should be 3,142 new States, which are derived from the same number of counties and county-equivalents in the 50 states and District of Columbia. Imagine how big Washington D.C. would become to accommodate all of the representatives and senators!

Ultimately, with whom we associate and exchange goods/services is a collection of individual choices, but imaginary lines on a map will not solve our massive lack of civil interactions with Leftists.

Return to the beginning: require property ownership to be able to vote. Cull the takers from the makers. Or, as Heinlein put it, service means citizenship

Weren’t the legislators in OR Dem majority B4 this last election? Are they still? I seem to remember the Rep state senators going to another state so legislation couldn’t pass there. Has anything changed with the election? If not, I don’t see the OR lawmakers approving a “leave” of counties. A lot of CA residents have moved to ID also. How long B4 they vote ID into CA? It seems like it’s just prolonging the inevitable. We should stay and fight for our state . . . but that’s not the easy option. As long as the virus is allowed to spread it will.

I love the idea of Americans going Gulch. Here is an idea of a self-financing going Galt Gulch to deprive Anti-Americans from grabbing American assets.
Alaska has its Permanent Fund, Norway has its Oil Fund, Switzerland has its Sovereign Wealth Fund. As it turns out, many states and countries have sovereign wealth funds. The main idea is that these sovereign wealth funds are funded during fat years and culled during lean years. The funds are all treated tax-free for the various tax authorities around the world.
What if we agitated for a state (the Galt Gulch state) to launch a sovereign fund that would charge 0.25% in fees for administration and good deeds to the residents of the Gulch state, funded by Americans, run like a mutual fund so that Americans could buy/sell/transfer federally tax-free?
Initially, the Gulch fund could be a simple Bogle portfolio of 55% VTI, 35% VEA, and 10% VCTL … but as it grows we could enhance it. Should the fund reach billions in size, we could start making individual company investments and “nudge” these companies to behave like Americans.
So what do you get for the 0.25% fee? You get a pooled going Gulch momentum, you get tax-free growth, and (perhaps) tax-free redemptions/payouts/transfers too.
Note: I don’t have a tax legal background, so the idea presented may be a non-starter. I’m happy to chase down the legality of this idea if it resonates with my fellow Americans.

Not sure I understand all the acronyms here, but are you saying grow the “gulch fund” by participating in stocks, mutual funds, etc. via Wall Street?

Yes. I am proposing a state sovereign wealth fund possibly called the “Gulch Fund” that invests in stocks&bonds world wide on behalf of Americans. Americans and Anti-Americans as defined by Bill in his MB2A series. Like other sovereign wealth funds it will be tax-free. IRS tax-free aims exactly at minimizing the money available for government to confiscate by Anti-Americans.
Wall Street the street still exists. Wall Street the dominant place to invest in the US is no more, it is just one of the Stock exchanges in the US, and even the NYSE famed specialists of yesteryear are a thing of the past.

Good read. It seems just about everyone is waiting for someone else to “rally the troops”. 🙁 Her point about one persons actions being “suicide” is true. We need great numbers sticking together or they will pick us off one by one.

Excellent read and only takes a few minutes. Reading it makes one realize how far we have already “slipped”.

Thank you for a week worth of truly optimistic thought. Please just keep it up. I feel certain that this will end up uniting the Americans in a solution to the issues which currently can look so insurmountable and threatening. Meanwhile this 78 year old woman will be trying to figure out what I can do to actively support this movement. Anyone with an idea for me, please wade in!

Support your local businesses, the mom and pop places (if there are any left). Reduce the $ you spend at the major retailers (you know, the ones that were allowed to stay open during the lockdowns while small biz’s had to close). Barter if possible. Blessings to you!

This is brilliant work. It mirrors my own efforts but your work has a much higher degree of organization and clarity than my efforts that are guided by my fickle muse.
Where I assume you will eventually be going is ‘what actions we might take’, which I am in the process of wordsmithing my message. My basic outline is that each of us are at various stages down this road, from just starting to care to ready for civil war and everything in between. In recognizing that, my suggestions are just that, suggestions. Some of you might not be ready to do some of the things I am suggesting, while still others have been doing them for a year or more. Do what works for you.
That shirt I told you guys about is finished and I have one for the three of you should you ever care to claim it. What you are doing here is appreciated beyond words. I believe that it will be efforts like this that will be the glue that binds this noble cause together.

I agree with these principles, but I would ditch the elephant & party. I am an American and the Rep party has proven itself to be fickle and sometimes downright spineless & traitorous. I think we need less govt. and a strong 3rd party not affiliated with any current parties in name or substance. Maybe the American Party, who knows. The current system is broken, not because the foundation is weak, but because the politicians haven’t listened to us in a long time and do what they want and get rich doing it. And we’ve allowed it.

Another thought is putting election reform as a referendum question on the ballot where that is possible. If the legislature will not do it, go directly to the people.

Local employment trading systems developed in some places with zero cash flow to over come the economic problem. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_exchange_trading_system
Its a cheque book like system run by a trusted community member. I was once in one but never got around to spending all I earned.
Some of us were on a forum discussing how to make it digital. One other member had a Japanese name. We think that was Satoshi Nakamoto. We could not crack it but on another forum someone proposed the shar hash system. Satoshi took one part of lets; the ledger, added the hash system. Made the numbers far bigger than any of us dared. Huge hash. huge 10000000 subdivision of a single bitcoin. Big public keys and boom we had blockchain and bitcoin. He also made its value synchronize with gold with a falling issue of bitcoins.
When tax departments in several countries went after LETS, the lets masterminds trapped them. They created lets accounts for the tax department and challenged them to use it, knowing it would beak the legal tender monopoly. Most governments chickened out. Some took the lets and used it locally. Its worthless outside town.
When money flows back into a town the lets system generally declines and dies. It has done its job.

Just my opinion: MB2A shouldn’t concern itself with “news.” RA deals with that. And I think Bill’s gonna burn out unless he cuts back to 15 minutes for 4 days, with the 5th day a “Best of” compilation.
Imagine the possibility for burn out if Bill is doing 5 RAs, 5 45 minute MB2As, maybe a TSL, and then tries to do another What we Saw-type gig for Jeremy Boreing.

I know when I overwhelm myself for too long I begin to forget simple things like words, names, etc. Maybe Bill, Steve, and Scott could do a poll of all members for like a week and decide what/how many shows to do every week.

Whole heartedly agree and why I also suggested shooting for 20 min for these and stopping at 30. Batteries do need to be recharged.

Bill, pardon me but I think you have a little blind spot, I noticed it in your list of those 7 “enemies of freedom” in Know Your Enemy, and in this one, too. What we have seen in our country at least since 2011 (#OWS) is a shocking expansion of SJW PLUTOCRATS, stupendously wealthy “capitalists” who have either enthusiastically or fearfully decided to throw in with the SJWs, politicians and bureaucrats you so expertly outlined. Not just Soros and Steyer and Bezos and Bloomberg, but these social media tyrants like Zuck and Jack and the Google politburo. Look at these woke Hollyweird studios, and even companies like Gilette, for God’s sake! So I am a little concerned that the actual “titans of industry” in our country are actually people who hate us as much as the other 7 groups.
Back in the Cold War, our whole business class was solidly pro-American with the sole exception of Donald Kendall with Pepsi (ArmandHammer was simply a Soviet agent). Now in 2020, it looks more like our whole business class is geared to converting us toward the Chinese social credit system and away from that primitive concept of independent citizenry.

Sure, the youth is fed with those ideas since about the cold war… by now grown into the voting age while people who built actual stuff dying out. Spare the rod and spoil the child. A thing I am also personally guilty of by walking the wide road. Probably should be theme for one of the next episodes.

I think en masse we can greatly affect these big biz’s. Maybe some gave in to pressure from SJW’s or maybe they’re mostly SJW ran, who knows? I know they were “allowed” to stay open when the mom & pop’s had to close during the lockdowns. That told me a lot about their long-term plan. We may not be able to shut them down, but I think if we stop being so “instant gratification” and not give our $ to them (but to small biz), then we can knock them down a peg or two. I’d rather wait a week on a product I’ve purchased than to pay JB a monthly fee or give him my $$. We all need to be like that. Once they see the SJW minority won’t sustain them . . .

I think the episodes have been mostly good, you had me barking at the screen a couple times but that’s not a big deal. Personally I’d like to see more live shows in the same vein as our favorite youtube pop culture critics. I feel like it’s going to be hard to come with an hour of semi prepared monologue 5 days a week for an extended period and just generally interacting with the members/viewers live will probably greatly increase the longevity of the show. Maybe a solid topic or set of ideas T W and Th and livestreams M and F. Having guests at some point may be worth looking into in the future. I don’t know, I’m sure I’ll watch whatever you choose. Anything for more talk about everyone ceasing to pay their taxes at the same time. I dream of such things.

Been a bad year for income? It has for me. How about, as far as taxable income goes, it not only never gets better, but continues to get worse? You are still filling out your taxes and still paying some, but doing everything else in no record manners. (cash/metals/barter)

Protecting Red states from blue state immigrants. Voting moratoriums on state and local elections for ten years. Part of driver’s license agreement. We will allow you to move into our state, but you must learn what makes our state one in which you want to live, before we give you a say in how it is run, including US senate and house of representative seats. You left your state for a reason and you must learn that reason before voting in our state or having a say in who represents us in Washington, District of Criminals. Don’t like our deal? T.S. – go home.

It seems states changing their residency/voting laws is one way to slow the virus spread. Seems like since the SC wouldn’t hear the TX lawsuit this has a good chance of falling into the “states voting laws don’t affect other states” BS.

First off, since Bill was asking in the video, Bill the content and schedule are great. I don’t think you need to do news, I think we are all suffering from news overload, so for now skip it, the rest of the channels content covers the news find. I think the current content regime for this show is good, your thinking through a concept that we are all invested in.
As for viewership expectations, I think the show will grow as more conservatives are gong to start looking for advice on moving forward. Also start shopping the idea around ask to be a guest on Rubin, Klavan, Crowder, and anyone else who you know can see the need for this idea. Get on that podcast guest circuit, this is an area that has always bothered me personally with your content is that you don’t show up elsewhere in the conservative content-sphere.
Maybe this is like with asking for money that somehow asking to be a guest is asking for help, but we need some cross-pollinations of audiences. There are many, current subscribers to all those channels that have never heard you on those various shows. And its not like we can actually count on organic grow on youtube with the tech-barons stifling content.
As for the parallel economy issue, can we get Musk (because I think he is sufficiently red-pilled, he is trying to go Galt on Mars after all) on this problem. He created paypal, he could do it again and anonymize the transactions so no one, not even him, could prove anything even occurred. Lets combine Crypto, Blockchain, and the Dark Web to go financially off the grid. If all of our finances go Galt, and no one can prove we made any money in a year, then do we owe it to this government to admit we owe taxes?
We after all are officially being taxed without legal representation so I don’t think we owe the IRS a damn thing, seeing as if we were to audit the IRS at all we would most likely find a mountain of corruption. If the IRS shows up saying “we don’t believe that you didn’t make any money” and we can answer back with “prove it.” The onus is on them to prove we owe them a dime.
Another thing is that, America is the most generous country on the planet and its not even close. Personal donations to charities are massive in America, and as we know most of that gets eaten up by administration costs. Or, worse still go to charities and funds that on the outside may look like the Red Cross, but are really just as deeply corrupt as the Clinton foundation. NGO’s like all the various Soros linked foundations are more of the same. Good people, donated to BLM after all.
We need to stop donating to charities that cant prove where the money goes, and are not just using the money to buy influence in Washington or the UN. We need to stop people from donating to University endowment funds. Unfortunately, we also need to stop most foreign aid. Any independent audit of most foreign aid organizations would find what many of us already know. That most if not all foreign aid is stolen by dictators, despots, or worse still the UN. If foreign aid could make a difference we would have seen the proof sometime in the last 50 years.

While I agree that we have news overload, esp. on quantity, it is not true for quality. I’d welcome a solid news source. It doesn’t have to be anything fancy, just a list with REAL headline and a link would do. Need not be here either, a channel on discord would do the trick. Lately I’m on the channel connected to Matt Christiansen, it was much better and faster source than any of the big organized things out there. Setting up one for members could serve well.

Agree with one caveat. I worked for a well known, worldwide, nonprofit organization and they would spread their admin costs across all the departments to lower the overall admin cost % they reported to United Way. So, when people who wanted to donate to them through UW would look at their % that went to direct aid, it would be like 96%! A total BS job! Biggest reason why I quit my regional director job with them. So, you can’t trust the UW info. or what they say on their websites. Ask the locals who’ve used various nonprofits during a crisis. They will tell you who robbed them blind. Usually local charities are best. Ask the locals!

Some ideas:
Did you know that the Gold and Silver coins printed by the US mint have a dollar face value? Did you know if you pay someone a Gold Coin from the US Mint that is it legal tender and worth only the face value as you report your pay?
Trying to use Bitcoin an barter as payment and exchange methods as often as possible would also help
Produce as much as you can for yourself – concentrating on food and power. The Cities will come under attack, and most of the efforts to create a tyranny will be in those places. It is best to get out now and start a homestead.
Better than not serving your enemies – charge them more… You are a Plumber? Check the voter registration of anyone who calls you and triple your rate for those people.
Make sure you exert a social cost on them. They need to learn that civility is a two street. They need to be civil – demanding our laws be upheld and our long standing social contracts and norms observed. Do not help them. DO not break bread with them. Give them no opportunity to believe they have the sanction of the victim to weaponize the government against their neighbors. Make sure they understand why you have chosen to not associate with them. If they can’t keep an agreement with you as important as the US Constitution, you must assume that no other thing they say can be trusted. Make them feel despised as the vermin they are.. as they have treated conservatives in their enclaves of power, we must treat them – as pariahs. Even Jesus said there was a limit on turning the other cheek. Make sure they know they have reached it.

Or maybe even tell them “I’m booked out for 6 months. I’d be happy to book you an appointment then to give you an estimate.”

Yes, they use it as psy-ops. “We don’t need you, you need us.” Let them see how it works.

Just as a side note, the majority of VA employees (maybe all Gvt employees) were forced to defer their social security taxes until January, at which point they are to be taken out of your payroll to pay back over a span of 4 months.

Our government plays with our lives through taxes. This deferment made no sense then and it makes less now. It’s well past time to “go Gault”.

I think your idea of making one show a week a compilation of the previous weeks shows is a good one. I wish I could think of more. Got to let it go around in my mind for awhile. Thanks for all you do! I know this must take a lot of your time, energy, and your knowledge (which never ceases to amaze me).

I thoroughly enjoy your presentation and I agree that the onus is on us to make things happen although the thought of me running for office (as suggested in a previous MB2A) and having my past peccadilloes on display for all see is a bit off-putting. Nevertheless, citizen legislators can be a great help in eliminating legislative deafness.

Now on the content. This episode bashes around the idea of shadow economy. It is interesting by all means, but IMNSHO gets very far from reality. Bill tries to put it in the engineering problem bucket, but it is not. It’s clearly a political one, and you can’t hope to engineer your way out. At least in a sustainable way.
For proof you just have to look around — it is tried in so many countries, maybe all of them with a tax system. And the ticks do push back. And actually start taxing your helping move your brother’s sofa (in less advanced forms only your nephew’s). And find the way to know about ot. Or worse yet, just drop it on you when you’re in focus for other stuff they don’t like.
Many countries produce over third or half of the GDP in the black economy. And it has bad effect on everyone in average. I refrain from examples just because you can ask people from such countries and they can quote hundreds of pages just from their own experience. In some of those countries big effort was taken toward whitening by significantly lowering the taxes on one end and add more draconian measures to extend collection. Most of the latter being claimed as impossible to work out, to invoke armageddon or at least fail to collect more — proven false on all accounts. And leading to a better working economy and more satisfaction.
Deliberately shifting to the blackening is a bad idea even when everybody agree that tax evasion shouild be considered a patriotic duty for all the good reasons no one argues. I suggest for this part the honest attack on the front door — and convincing tens of millions to just stop paying the oppressors and cheaters is the better one.
If you go for parallels from biology and evolution it’s a good idea to study that field. Otherwise it’s too easy to go astray. Here worth to look at the life/dinner principle. The selection pressure is often not symmetric. When the fox chases the rabbit, the fox runs to get the dinner while the rabbit for his life. Selection for fast running and evasion is way more expressed for the latter, as the consequence of failure if more imminent. This applies to the parasites and all situations where you established the “who depends on who” in the first sentence. Certainly evolution never guarantees all parties to survive, if you go slowly and allow time to adapt, the more pressed parties will show more drastic changes. Don;t build on speculation on what you thing would not be practical — especially in the age of technology. A decade or two ago did we thing mass surveillance can be a thing?
The tax collection system has a lot of reserve and will catch up to any tactics that becomes widespread enough. The idea of reinventing the barter will only fly until you keep it small and insignificant. Remember to check the suggested solution for how it scales, and importantly how it looks at that stage for all involved parties.
Now, the payroll auto-deduction is much more promising on the engineering level: maybe just a viral app could cover a lot that as a byproduct tells the user how much money he paid actually, bringing to the light the part that supposed to remain hidden. Not as strong as feeling the parting with the money, but still a lot, as the core problem is people not being aware. And the can be cured.

I think that you’d have to do a few things. Move conservatives out of heavily blue/urban areas such as LA and into more rural parts of, say, Texas so that you have larger voting power in Texas to outweigh the blues that move in and to mould the taxes and laws to something more suitable.
I think you’d then have to run something akin to Costco (crossed with the Masons). A card-carrying membership scheme with difficult entry wherein those businesses only sell to members (or buy from them). That way you can decide who you want to deal with, and not allow access, legally, to those who don’t meet the requirements.
As for the IRS, I think as you say, the trick there is to make sure that no truly American business pays Pay-as-you-Earn (witholding), so that people can see what they’re having to pay out. You could also do something within the club idea above regards corporate social responsibility, charity days etc where people or groups of people for larger community projects, are assisted with significant needs volutarilty at no cost; but which are only available within the scheme. Those who join in receive standing and rise in the so called ranks of eligibility for better deals or access to more trade.

Voting rights that are tied to residency should require a substantial length of residency. I’d start with over 2 years, but no less then 1. That would mitigate any simple migration aiming only vote-fixing, and allow people to pick up the local culture before granting the power to just overrule it.

I think a lifetime of thinking one way or in a certain states culture needs a longer “resident/voting” requirement. Over 2 years is a good start. I’d go for at least 5.

On the subject of taxes, and the bureaucrats who forgot the “servant” part of public servant…
a great little film was released in 1981 called “Harry’s War” starring Ed Hermann as Harry Johnson, David Ogden Stiers as the IRS bad guy, Geraldine Page, and Elisha Cook Jr, Harry’s just a regular guy who’s asked by an old and aging friend to help her deal with the IRS, who’s decided to make an example of her. When Harry gets in the way, the IRS comes after him. After being bullied and threatened, (“I’m the US Government, Johnson! Who are you?”) Harry just skips the whole passive resistance thing and declares war, with the help of family and a couple of friends and a war-surplus Army tank. Harry sets out to remind the bureaucrats who they work for. This entertaining and hilarious little gem of a film quickly vanished, pulled from circulation, but it’s sometimes available on streaming video. It may be almost 4 decades old, but it seems to have become more prophetic and relevant with the passage of time – how does the little guy stand up against the government that’s supposed to be his servant?
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0082503/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

Mass numbers of people. Harry would simply go to jail as would all other “lone wolves”. But I’m guessing we’ll see more as stuff gets more crazy.

Has anyone ever seen the transcripts of the Timothy McVeigh trial or figured out why he was executed (and silenced) in record time, or why the remains of the Murrah building were demolished and hauled away and buried so rapidly?
I have heard, but have no evidence, that McVeigh’s defense was the 2nd Amendment. “we have a RIGHT and DUTY to fight against tyranny.”

I LUV IT…the format is great right now as it is all unfolding, a lot to digest…so pls just keep going. Thanks for bringing to light in one place all the things that we know…and need to remind ourselves about the things we must do about it.
Thank you!

Atlas Shrugged was almost like two distinctly different book in one and that made it very difficult to read. There was a brilliant and engaging story with fascinating characters. That part of the book was a real page-turner. But very often, during the story, all of a sudden Rand would go on a forty page rant about something. Those rants, brilliant and insightful, in themselves, would completely upset the flow and continuity of the story.

A project I hope to accomplish one day is to re-edit Atlas Shrugged into two books. One, just the story and the other, a collection of her rants. I think both portions of Atlas Shrugged would be much more readable this way.

In the short term we can focus on directing our business to companies that share our values (e.g., Goya, My Pillow), and consistently refusing to give money to companies that support leftist values.
The Amish example (Mormons would be another) emphasizes one of the problems many of us face – lack of community. It is easier to push around isolated individuals than it is to push around large number of individuals united around a common set of values.

That’s a really good idea. It makes me wonder why Bill Whittle uses YouTube at all. He ought to do a week or so on YouTube simply notifying his viewers that, starting next week he will only be available on Rumble (or BitChute), for free content, or on BillWhittle.com for premium content. That would both stop giving money to the censors at Google and promote open and friendlier platforms. Also a way to lead by example.

Yeah. I was considering to get in as member but feeding YT was a major deterrent. And will be again on decision to keep it.
I saw other channels switching to 50s proxy videos with link to the full version elsewhere, thus both avoiding monetization of the monster while keeping interested people’s convenience of tracking. And dodging any censorship stuff as a big bonus. I hope BW moves to some similar delivery.

Gr8 idea. 🙂 Give a short vid saying where the full vid is and have a free version and paid get more stuff.

Become a member at billwhittle.com then you are supporting directly. I would like to see BW move to locals, or something similar, where you join by paying a small monthly fee that goes directly to the content provider. I pay $5 per month for Dave Rubin.

YT is still the most popular, most viewed platform. I’ve seen several conservative channels say they will stay on it until they are kicked off just on general principle. Many are being shadow banned, subscribers throttled, and shut down. It may be a good way to get the word out while getting on other platforms. Build momentum. Rest assured, they will come after him as soon as he catches their attention.

I purposefully found the Goya section & bought anything that looked good! I still buy my beans, cookies, and juices from Goya.

In the last several months, we have had the same issue with quite a large percentage of content on YT and YTTV. It seems less on my puter than on our TV. Sometimes our only venture onto network TV – WOF and Jeopardy – are unwatchable.

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